Goodness, there's more politics in this community that in the current presidential election. There's obviously differences in opinion between members of the community on what is the 'right' thing to do when selecting maps, for example, whether to exercise favoritism and reduce risk or selecting bad maps, or going for a full democracy with perhaps more difficulty in selecting good maps, but with more inclusion of the community. If we can discuss this issue at its core, then criticism for the CCs would be much more valuable and coherent. I may not be a significant member of this community, but if we're going to be anywhere near constructive, someone(not me, because I do not have time nor patience) needs to start a new post where we avoid personal attacks completely. This incessant bickering can continue, but I believe that constructive brainstorming is the way to go. So, I would plead any main community members out there, CC or not, start a new post. Let's figure this out as a community.
Just add a Sticky or some kind of reminder about the CURRENT TASK, I remember dung the Reach era everybody was very vocal about what kind of maps were being looked on (Heavies, Invasion, 4v4...). Blueprint's group worked really well because of that and I had big fond memories of it.
Eh, bleuprint did some good things, but to me they seemed to be a bit walled off from the rest of the community. That's how I remember it being at least.
I'll be creating a thread later on today about how I think CC task announcements should be handled. In a nutshell they need a singular thread for each specific task that would than be posted on all the major halo communities. (FH, Halo Reddit, Team Beyond, and Waypoint) if I missed any let me know.
Each task has varying degrees of transparency that 343 allows. The HCS one was completely open because it was critical that they get the best maps with the most testing when compared to a standard matchmaking environment. The Ricochet contest wasn't a task, it was a contest. Certain Affinity was largely in charge of that one, seeing as they were the primary designers behind Halo 4's multiplayer and one of their developer T-Shirts was one of the prizes. The recent Breakout task was leaked to a small portion of the community, which lead to the maps all being from those authors. People had such a problem with this that many of the same complaints about transparency started going around. Because of this, the BTB task was made public to the forge community. It was posted on twitter, on various websites, etc. Things are always being judged by 343 on a case by case scenario on how much publicity the CC's can give each task. The NDA has always been in effect, and it has been stated multiple times, even in this thread, that the CC's legally can't be fully transparent, sometimes even with each other. Refusal to acknowledge this information when it has been widely spread is not the fault of the CC's or 343, but rather the fault of those of you who are looking for reasons to be upset with the CC's over petty vendettas or biases. The system is broken, yes. We can all agree on that. However, it isn't anyone in the CC's fault that it's broken. They're just as unhappy with it as we are, yet they become the villains when something goes wrong. No one is perfect, and personal biases will exist no matter who is in this position. Things will get overlooked, and human error will always occur. Not every map can be seen, especially if it hasn't been posted anywhere public or talked about at all. All of this is because of the way the current system works. We need to stop attacking each other and rather focus on getting 343 to change that system. THAT is the real problem here.
When will the 2v2 playlist drop? Will it be permanent or temporary such as Fiesta? When will infection drop? Will it be permanent or temporary? Will it feature community gametypes/maps? Has a select group of members been designated to make the gametype/maps or will the community be involved? If the CC's know the answers to these questions and 343 has gave them permission to inform us, now would be the time to let us know. Rather than keeping it secret. I think this is the largest issue with the CCs. They know information and hold it from us, that is, unless they are forced to by 343.
They know the answers, and they were instructed by 343 to only involve certain community members who have proven to be a source of high quality content for the respective tasks. 343 doesn't want certain things being public information yet, since they haven't made the official announcements themselves. However, community content is required as a basis for these. That's why transparency has been muddy with these ones. 343 has tied the hands of the Cartographers and pointed them to certain people they COULD tell without making it all public. Again, it's not the fault of the CC's, it's the system they work in.
Thank you for making this. My forge grifball map is currently the top post of ALL TIME on /r/forge, received over 1200 upvotes on /r/halo and was downloaded by almost 200 people. Somehow my map wasn't put into rotation; but one guy, DarkPrince909, worked on 4 out of the (6?) in matchmaking... (not hating on you DarkPrince your maps are great, I just think their is obvious favoritism going on here) 343 really needs to get in touch with the community better.
We were able to be public about the Grifball task and did our best to capitalize on those liberties. We posted notified the community through ForgeHub, GrifballHub and Twitter asking every one to submit their maps for matchmaking consideration: The Cartographers Want Your Grifball Maps For Matchmaking In retrospect, the article we put out could have been spread across multiple sites. When we have the chance to publicize tasks in the future, I'll make sure we hit all corners of the community next time. As for our submission system, pictures really help us to view content so any 3rd party Halo website would do. To be clear, no one should be required to post maps to ForgeHub for matchmaking consideration. I just have a tendency to check ForgeHub more frequently than others since I live and work here.
You said his work is great yet he doesn't deserve it??? Doesn't make sense to me. Doesn't sound like favoritism, sounds like he is getting rewarded for his hard work.
I was more or less saying why people are mad. Honestly until this thread I had no idea that there was an NDA for Cartographers and they shouldn't be mad if someone might think it is BS based on what Salty said, even if what he said is not accurate. Also, shouldn't the goal be to always get the best maps so your point doesn't really make any sense. MM and HCS shouldn't be treated differently. I have already talked to Fated and he understands where I am coming from and honestly, saying it is people's personal vendetta's against people that is causing this uproar is just wrong. If there mad at people it is because of the process and the fact they are being left in the dark. Anger has to be directed somewhere and ends up that the CC's get the brunt of it because they represent the community and we have contact with them. I don't agree with any of the insults that have been thrown around in this thread. If you have a problem with someone address it with reason rather than name bashing. I told Xandrith that was the wrong way to do it. My point is they could have just said we cannot be open about the selection process/task and most including myself would have been satisfied. Sure we would ask why but that answer is very clear. Also, quit making stigma.
[Warholic] "To be clear, no one should be required to post maps to ForgeHub for matchmaking consideration" And it never should. I hate posting my maps on forums, and I don't care for it either. I know I'm not alone for it. I'd be cool to have a poll for each CC with varying criteria, i.e.: Is this CC respected for their level design knowledge? Does this CC Exhibit blatant favoritism? Is this CC respected as a pillar of the community? Is this CC active in testing lobbies? Is this CC actively speaking with new and old forgers? Is this CC actively transparent and post threads looking for maps on various sites? I feel like a simple poll would should more than enough how the community feels; both personally and objectively. Sure, you may feel Duck has been a recluse lately in terms of new forgers at average/sub-optimal levels of forging, but what he does do is create videos to help them learn. Remember that everyone has different learning styles. Honestly, if Squally had the time or was willing too, I'd want him to be a CC. It was only because of him and xDemption (Redemption2742 or something) who actually gave me solid feedback and helped with my designs when I started out in Halo 4. Not every CC should do that. There needs to be ones in the loop with the ultra-competitive players, or "pro-forgers", but I would not know the things I do about forge/level design it if wasn't for Squally, am I'm sure I am not alone. --- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2016 --- Also, #Forgegate #OccupyForgeHub #Occupy4Chub #AllMapsMatter #CCs2016 #ForgingFingersTurnToTypingFingers EDIT: Added a 6th criteria.
How many excuses can Squally make for someone in one post. The recent posts are completely ignoring half the issue. The lack of transparency sucks and should be MUCH better regardless of the system, but this is more about the character and reputation of certain CC's and how they treat the community. Their obvious favoritism in map selection and how who they converse with, the way they recluse themselves and talk about fellow forgers. That's the bigger issue. We have cartographers in the system who are there for no reason other than the fact that they were around when the CC's were looking for someone. That's it, and they've proven that they're very underqualified. If you want anything to change stop making excuses.
Ah the Blueprint group, such fond memories... till I was forced out. In fairness, I was acting like a massive twat in the end though. While that group was great, it started to implode on itself in the end when selfish idiots like BlaqCloud were given more prominent roles.
I've been reading through this thread and this is such a tough situation to deal with. I was just thinking that it would be cool if these so called lists that get handed over to 343 could at least be shared with us some time before so we can at least let the community critics have an opportunity to voice some concern or share them with different communities to playtest as a playlist on their own. Especially the 2v2 list would have been an easy set to test. I'm sure we'd all quickly get enough feedback about certain maps whether they should be included or not and if nothing changes then it will be apparent what's going on. Then again of course I doubt the ccs will agree because they will lose the power, that i believe multi said above and I sort of agree with, they use the nda excuse to hide behind and reserve it.
Would like to know how a map like Bloodsport got okayed and put into rotation. I played it 3 times today and it was horrible.. Can we please get this stuff looked at and reconsidered?
Almost every post I see from Duck is slighted. If you can't see why he would treat you differently (for obvious reasons) then I don't think this conversation can evolve. How many times have we come to the CC's asking for change, and how many times has nothing happened? Too many times, to be honest. Like I have said multiple times, yes, I know I'm being a douche. If you aren't living in a fantasy land it is easy to see that this is working, and ONLY because I came out swinging. As you can see, the majority of the community agrees with me, not only about the system, but about duck and fated. I actually made a difference with this post, but I couldn't have done it without all of your replies, so thank you guys for sharing and bringing to light the slighted nature of both Duck and Fated. They simply don't belong, and if you think they do, I am willing to bet you belong to their boy band of misfits. I am looking at you Colson. I'm sorry If I dragged you into anything, but I'm not about to lay down now. I too think it is time that we move on and discuss the change in the system, but I will NEVER stop talking about at least Duck until I'm ****ing IP banned from Xbox, Forgehub, HaloCustoms, Skype, and Waypoint. Every post is an underhanded insult, he counterbalances his professionalism while talking behind peoples backs, and I really, REALLY think he should step down or be kicked off the team. Anyways, I am ready to drop this. I feel that my concerns have not only been heard, but changes are happening as a result. Thanks for the support! I can go back to being that guy who likes everything now. I will stand by my opinion (observations) of Duck and Fated, but I will let everything else be.
the CC need to open up with the rest of the community and post on ether waypoint or even r/halo. Bring up maps that show PROMISE an show it the rest of the community instead of keeping it in one spot. That might be the best way to start fixing the community rift that is being shown right now.
The whole idea behind this event was to have Community submitted maps. One guy doesn't represent the majority of the community. Doesn't matter if you think he deserved it or not.