In my opinion, you aren't actually making a map when you are building a blockout--you are building a blockout. The process of making a map in forge does not include the blockout phase because it is not at all necessary. It's an additional planning step that only a very small number of people can actually use effectively to any beneficial degree. It's similar to how people draw really nice map designs on graph paper. There are not too many people with the knowledge, experience, and skill to design a layout beforehand and have it translate well into the game. If they were that good at level design, I'd certainly hope they were working at 343 to get us some better maps. I feel that the best way to become a better forger is to simply go out and make maps. That is what we did way back in Halo 3. It was all trial and error. Learning and improving. It takes years of figuring out what to do and what not to do in order to get to the point where you can actually benefit from making a blockout. To reiterate, I am not saying that only the best forgers should be making blockouts. What I am saying is that the number of people who spend time doing those planning phases is far greater than those who can make good use of them. They would be better off producing tons of maps and getting better with each and every one instead of making a few maps over the entire lifetime of the game. The good forgers are the ones who can create a ton of great maps without needing to ask for feedback in a thread everytime they make a slight change. They know what they are doing and are probably capable of benefiting from a blockout. Some people are just too preoccupied with level design when they really shouldn't be, which is where my earlier comments come into play and why I have this opinion.
I know this is the unpopular opinion thread and all but "Don't plan. Don't ask for Feedback. Just keep Forging until you get good." Forge is a tool. Sketchup is a tool. Pen and Paper is a tool. Whatever napkin you sketch your design on is a tool. All of these things are available to aid in translating a design from your head into the game. The absolute biggest problem with Forge - and why most people don't take it seriously - is because it has been an "object manipulator" for 8 years. It's only now that we are starting to get into set dressing with lighting and sound effects. What you did back in Halo 3, Reach, Halo 4 and H2A was work within limitations. The editor was not flexible and it often meant designing only what it would allow you to, or taking an external design and diminishing it to make it work. Now if you want to say making a blockout back then was pointless, then I might be inclined to agree, because your map was probably not going to look the way you wanted it to. In fact, a blockout would have been what the finished map actually looked like. Fortunately however, that is no longer the case in Halo 5. I'm not forced to make my map floating in the sky or worry about letting natural light in anymore. This means I can spend more time planning to make sure the map has the look and gameplay that I want. For the people who are more interested in the artistic element of design then the science part of it, this is especially important. Maybe you just threw yourself at Forge until the blocks made an interesting design, but there are others who have and will prefer to use all the tools at their disposal. I've worked on over a dozen separate maps in Halo 5 since December, a number I don't really pay attention to because I like to keep creating whether I release all of it or not. Some of them are just stupid strips of geometry that I was curious of where it would go, like the last map I posted. But almost all of them were the result of "trial and error" within the editor, and almost all of them were missing a blockout planning stage. The ones that are the closest to being released are the ones I spent more time planning and figuring out what the hell I wanted out of the design before I wasted time Forging aimlessly. Even when I did throw something together in the editor, I went back to sketch it up to make sense of it. Many level designers do that. Not every map begins with a meticulously planned out blockout or Sparth concept art. Lockout evolved from a series of sketches by Chris Carney, whereas Rat Race was just Hardy LeBel squashing and stretching ramps and tubes while he learned the software. Every person has their own process which can vary from every map, but one thing you'll find in common is that even the best designers will ask for feedback for "slight changes" such as moving the spawn of a Carbine. Damnation is arguably the greatest Halo map and it began with a sketch that was dead in the water until feedback was given on the design to improve it. I personally like making my work public because I don't believe the design of anything should happen in a bubble, but even those who do not have big mouths still ask their peers for critiques. I'd love to meet one of these "great forgers" who can just **** out great maps though. Perhaps they can give me some godly advice so I don't have to spam threads looking for it.
Are you joking? Blockouts are super beneficial! Damn near EVERY forger I know starts with a sloppy version of their map to get an Idea or feel for it. Hell, most people sketch their maps as well! You started off this thread by saying people who post pictures of blockouts in the waywo thread are acting pompous and egotistical and justify that by saying those blockouts aren't actually maps? Even if blockouts aren't maps (which they totally are) the thread is about what you are working on. This includes any and all things forge that is a WIP. Anyways, I shouldn't care this much, but you are pretty much directly insulting me when you say that.
Honestly, if you aren't doing a blockout in this game, you're missing out. You can art your map up however the **** you like after you know how it's going to play. My blockouts tend to be sloppy versions of the map with temporary art assets, whereas others are literally a bunch of blocks indicating the routes and flow. Regardless of how it looks, the general idea of this "massout" stage is to keep the design flexible, and everybody benefits from having a flexible design. Am sure everybody remembers this. I don't think you need to be a professional or even an experienced designer to take advantage of this. I'm a much better designer than I was back in MCC because I can focus on how my map plays and not how I want it to look in Forge.
I for one don't do blockouts, but I do do a sketch of parts I want to build in the map. Not layout wise, but art wise.
Yea I don't get it. The whole point of WAYWO is to post your ****, and it's never been exclusive to just Forge. The old thread on TeamBeyond had quite a few unrelated design stuff in there (you know, besides the drama). There's no rule on the site that says everything you post has to materialize into something. In fact, I'm more interested in the conceptual or experimental stuff than the map in progess pictures, because once it is nearing a finished state, it ought to have its own thread for feedback. The point of this particular thread is absolutely to share those opinions and I don't intend to crucify anyone over them. I just find that particular one completely bizarre.
Just gonna say this now. People are going to get butthurt from this. People who constantly do forerunner / human / covenant aesthetic aren't pushing any sort of personal boundaries and I have a hard time being impressed by any of those aesthetics. Try something new. Seeing forgers do Japanese, middle eastern, heaven, Hell, Destiny themed, whatever..those are the truly skilled artists. If you are replicating 343 forerunner aesthetic you're a bad forger with bad opinions and bad taste. And probably a female forger. Breakout pieces are hideous. Make a breakout map like you would any other map. If you're uncomfortable with ACTUAL REAL verticality where players are looking up/down at a relatively steep angle in gun fights then you're not a real designer. Go play the original doom if you only want to look left and right. And watch arena shooter gameplay and educate yourself. You can personally prefer and like any halo game you want and claim it as your favorite, but if you don't agree that Halo CE is the deepest, most balanced, skill based, perfectly designed halo game with the best maps... I don't care about anything else you say. And you're wrong. Room based maps are easy to design. Vyctoriouz was the best forger of all time. 343 is by far the worst developer of all time.
Mirror symmetric maps tend to be dull slayer maps unless they play asymmetrically. Vertical Lifts are jank as ****, especially when you have to turn around after you enter them. Not to be confused with Jump Pads or Man Cannons. Any spawn where you spawn within line of sight of another player who is in a power position is a bad spawn. If you're spawning on the bottom or out in the open, it better be somewhere ****ing safe. Snowbound and Tempest have tremendous potential and should be redesigned and fixed. Blood Gulch and Coagulation are the worst popular maps in Halo. Overlap > Levels > Flat Kindergarten ramps are baaaaaaaaaad and T ramps are even worse. Neutral Assault is a better gametype than Multi Flag. A bad map that took a risk deserves more praise than a good map that played it safe. The Fuel Rod doesn't belong in Multiplayer Asking for feedback doesn't make you a lesser designer. Red vs Blue team is cartoony and should have been abandoned years ago. Invasion's Green vs Purple was perfect and then they made it Red vs Blue again. Fire in the wall is the new 4chub tree. A designer who isn't willing to clean up or improve their design should not expect anyone to play on their maps. The Overshield is a poorly designed power up because it resets fights. 2v2 and 6v6 > 4v4 and 8v8. The sunset skybox on Glacier has the ugliest lighting. There should not be spawn points on the highest parts of a map. If a map has to rely on colors for orientation, it needs a geometric redesign. Every Forger should be familiar with color theory. I'd rather see maps that look like they came out of a Martha Stewart catalog as opposed to an elementary school coloring book. Here's a coloring wheel.
Your map doesn't have enough trees on it Playing on Simulation makes me feel like I'm a giant Scythe was my favorite Halo 4 forge map Real forgers forge in their dreams MCC got one thing right, the amount of tree options in Forge (and there still wasn't enough) Your map doesn't have enough trees on it If I'm temporarily blinded (by the sun or a light) when I'm shooting another player on your map, you have failed Torque is hands down the most creative grifball map to date Waffle Crisp is the best cereal EVER!!! A sweaty 4v4v4v4 playlist is the playlist Halo needs and deserves (next to doubles) Coloring your map purple and using cylindrical objects, does not a Covenant Map make You'd have to be the greatest forger alive to come anywhere near close to nailing Covenant Aesthetics Your map doesn't have enough trees on it
2v2 should be what competitive halo is played at. wish people were more into the fast style 1v1's where awareness off spawn has to be top notch. **** hitscan and bullet magnetism. People jumping the gun on whether something is bad. People jumping the gun on whether something is good. people hating on the 90's porn theme. people abusing positions in forge community then going out of their way to lie to you about it. people getting mad about someones passion for an art form. myself people don't put enough shotguns on their maps. the minimum is 17. how we need these passive aggressive threads.
I'll never look at you the same. --- Double Post Merged, Mar 5, 2016 --- I really really like all of these. Like, a lot.