Lol, just went back to the Angst thread. Most of the people in that thread are in this conversation right now. Except Proximo of course.
There are rules and there are guidelines. Maybe nobody will agree on what falls where, but denying that they exist is disingenuous. For example, I'd say it's a rule that you don't put Shield Doors on your maps a la Snowbound. Also agree with @SaltyKoala. It's important to know the rules before you start breaking them. This is actually taught in visual arts quite a bit - learning to observe and transcribe reality before distorting it. Because once you have that foundation down, you can do anything with it.
I think there's a reason it's referred to as design 'philosophy'. There is many gray areas with level design, and many different interpretations of which shade is preferable. As for the 'room-based' discussion: It's always been a vague expression, that I wouldn't pay much mind to. I wouldn't consider Guardian or Lockout room-based, but I understand why some would. It's just a term used to classify maps, but many maps have characteristics of multiple of these classifications.
Map "class" is like music genre. Sometimes there are crossovers and other times it doesn't really "fit" into any category. And there are some maps that are so..... unique that they end up with completely new categories of their own. For example, what is a map with terrain, rooms, bridges and atriums? Just that.
Well, hate to burst everyone's design talk bubble, but I just thought I'd let you know that I've successfully been able to bend lighting glitches to my will and add an American Flag to my map. I also added some pretty good looking Missingno murals around my map as well. I'd say things are coming along pretty well.
Since I contributed to the map discussion, I thought I'd share the Breakout map I'm working on. WIP thread should be going up today. Lots of playtesting and feedback from Creative Force, as well as @Duke of Mearl 's customs. This is iteration #4, so it's time to get it out there as a beta and see where things go. Aesthetics also received a big boost from Randy 355. Edit: iParanormal is a boss at teaching me how to use imgur properly.
This can either be something everyone treats as a hobby or it can be something nerdy with manuals, lectures and whiteboards full of theory and formula. But we can't keep skirting the line and moving the goal posts when it suits us. There cannot be Forge contests if there are no Forge "rules", because otherwise you are relying on the judge's tastes. Every decision they make is based on this preconceived "ruleset" which most people agree with until it stares them square in the face. Here's another example: most people agree that walls and floors should be smooth for predictable grenade bounces. Up until recently, it was considered by many to be a bad practice to use staircases without invisible barriers because grenades would get trapped on them. Can somebody really debate that grenades not going where you want them to is not bad for gameplay? That's as black and white as it gets. You can absolutely break that rule once you understand it - as is the case with anything design related - but everyone ought to be conscious of it nonetheless. Honestly there are more blacks and whites than grays when it comes to level design. I don't think we should stifle creativity at all, nor do I think we should encourage hostility and be condescending towards one another by shoving these rules in each other's faces. Nevertheless, I at least would appreciate more consistency, because one way or another we will end up butting heads again when the next "map that's good but really bad" shows up.
I'll put it right out there. The judging process for forge contests is a joke. I've been on a judging panel myslef, and I'll never do it again. Its a laughable process and I say this from expirence. Four people determinng what the "best" 2v2 map is? I don't think so lol. Ecspecially considering many of the judges are developing forgers and designers themselves. I'm looking at you goat. Because 343i is not as integrated into the communtiy as it should be contests like this will always fall short of what they could be, IMO, this would be a better formula IF 343i cared enough about the forge community to put In the extra effort to make something like this happen. The judging panel would consist of 6 well established forgers, than those judges would elect 15 to 20 maps based on their pre screening and testing of all the submissions. Those 15-20 maps would be put into a month long playlist by 343i and the entire halo community would have an opportunity to vote for thier favorite maps in that playlist and the results would determine placing for the contest. Does this plan seem unrealistic? Yes it does, but its by non means unachievable. Until this happens the contests will be and continue to be a joke and only there as a serving the purpose of making the communtity active. Which is great, but shld people treat the results of this contest seriously? No, please don't.
Salty, you just described the community cartographers, to my knowledge. We'll see how it goes with the grifball call, but I imagine it'll be similar to the Breakout call for screening.
When a contest is held, I believe it is widely accepted that the results aren't necessarily supposed to be seen as a universal truth. This contest, in particular, is to find the best maps to be in the upcoming 2v2 tournament (in the eyes of the judges). I, personally, don't see how 343's involvement would change anything in the process.
That is an awful idea Salty. We all saw how poorly the community was at determining quality maps with the Breakout poll. Some of the worst maps were the highest receiving vote-getters.
I kind of agree with this, but then we get into an issue of our opinion being more valid than the majority.
This is actually straight ****ed. Me and Yekkou tired for about 20-30 mins last night to fix it, nothing worked. Changing map canvas: nope, getting rid of the largest window piece: nada. if anyone has any idea how to fix this....you are a god. PS: he is kind of close to the origin of the map, I thought that might have something to do with this.
I don't think anyone claimed the judges for any contest as far as forge goes hold the highest esteem/knowledge on the subject. It is, however, their contest and therefore they do have the right to pick what map(s) they want to represent it. Even if you threw "professionals" in there as the judges, that doesn't change this fact imo.. The judges will pick their favorite maps. That doesn't mean they has to be everyeone's favorite. Edit: all of this hate towards lighting in this game makes me fear the day I get to the point when I actually bake the lighting on my current project and see how awful it looks
If that is the case than there shouldnt be ordered places and prizes attributed with those places... If I were holding a contest for the sole purpose of collecting maps I would do it as such. 10 maps will be selected as maps to be used in the tournament. Each forger with a map elected will each get 100 dollars. This way the prizing is distributed evenly. Intact, a formula as such would probably attract more people to the contest as forgers would feel they have a better chance of winning something. Currently its obviously based on favoritism of the judges... Which I fine, I mean there isn't a way around that. I just see it as laughable. My opinion and I was sharing it as a result of goat acting like this is serious business, which it isn't lol
Who likes donuts!? Its a reforge but I am trying to make it look better this time Made this back in H2a, few changes since