Yea I don't think the BR was easier to use at range at all. It was quite the opposite which is why maps like Standoff were serviceable in that game.
Haha, fair enough on the Standoff point. All I meant on the BR range was that it had a farther RRR, making duels better at greater distances. Don't get me wrong though, the H5 pistol is a (well-tuned) monster. I would still say that the best experience when shooting the pistol is when two players are at the edge of the RRR. Strafing at a distance might be easier, but it straight up plays better when there is some aim assist to smooth the combat.
Beleive it or not the pistols RRR actually extends past the range where the reticule stops being red. Check it out in game, Its actually quite interesting. There is a huge amount of sticky reticule and it takes quite awhile for it to drop off after the reticule is done being red.
I think this is why you said you enjoy battles at the end of its RRR and find those the most interesting.
Just want to say that this entire conversation is very educational for me. I think my plan for right now will be to finish up the interior and see how it plays with what I have, and see if I'd like more vertical gameplay from there, though I'll probably add one or two line-of-sight blockers to the outside areas.
Funny you guys brought it this up. I've had episode 4 of my map design series done for a while. I'm just gonna post this line from the script because I think it's relevant. "People like safe. People LOVE safe. In fact, you know what the best way to make people instantly love your map is? Have almost every engagement and LOS within red reticle, and have constant pacing so that it's you can always find combat right off of spawn. Not having either of those 2 factors in your map and you're bound to hear the criticisms right away. You're going to get told that the scaling is too big right off the bat. When realistically, not everything needs to have combat purpose. There's more to a high ledge that towers on the map then just shooting people. It's a visual of the battlefield, it's a transitional route, it allows the enemy to watch you as they sneak and you stare, it allows you to descend in a more free minded fashion. But the second it's out of red reticle you've immediately done something wrong in the mind of the masses. And God forbid we have breaks in combat! Make sure your map never let's players take a deep breath, sit and talk with their teammate how they want to approach the enemy set up for ten seconds or so, or move into position and wait for a flank. No, constantly throw them into combat and never give them a moment's rest. Why? Because it makes maps approachable, easy to play. And people love that ****. That's how you make a processed product" Just my 2 cents.
now what if i told you that you could have all those things and the map is not safe. is your mind blown. probably not.
Level design is subjective and that's the simple truth. Everyone has there preference. Some love long range fights and since love close range. Ideally you would want to cater to both, But sometimes a design is called to favor one over the other. The trick is figuring out your style and perfecting that. Because you can claim one style is safer then the other, but that's simply incorrect. A good designer is a good designer and a bad designer is a bad designer. It's a art you either know what your doing or you don't. Just like there are different art styles there are different map styles. In the end it's all about perfecting your style of design. Edit: Now I think everyone should experiment with all styles to try and become more well rounded designer but first found your Grove and perfect it
Here is my philosophy... have fun. Ultimately, it is about having fun and preconceived notions about map design often ruin peoples experience with a map. I see a lot of designers get caught up in the idea of there being rules and when they see something that is outside this box they tend to not give it a chance. I don't know about perfecting a style or you are either bad or good because it is subjective. I know plenty of people I would consider bad designers but others don't. Also, even people who have made good maps can just as easily make a bad map they next time they design something. The truth is all maps have their bad traits and their good traits. Ultimately, this is what makes a map it's own unique experience. I think where multi's frustration comes from is so many halo players have a bias for that style of design and he probably wishes people were more open minded about other ways to play halo. Disclaimer: I am not one of those people who thinks anything works in any game, well I am but you have to do it in a way that works with the game.
I am never said I hated the map. I said I would have changed some things and I anyways said to suit my own style. I said I like the routes just not the scaling. I would have just pulled everything a little tighter. I have always said I like the concept.
You are right it is about fun. And your right someone can make a bad and good map but wouldn't that mean the person is average. Lol. But your right. IMO map design is about preference and style, you can design to your preferences or others preference. That's why you can tell a design is someones before you even told who it is. That's all I am saying. I like that multi does his thing.
Some like long sight lines others like short. Some like 90 degree corners others like round. Some like height variation others like flat. Some like larger scaled maps others like small. If you asked each veteran forger on this forum about map design you would get a different answer from each of them. The only advice I can give to new forgers (and advice I still use today) is to consider everyone's opinion. Basically there is no right or wrong and everyone's style is different. If I posted a design picture on here I would receive replies with a variety of different opinions. Like @Sethiroth said, it is subjective. Just keep on keepin on. Look at the thread Goat posted last week about using one sentence to explain a forger's style. Each forger was given a unique explanation to explain their style because everyone forges differently.