Hey Forgehub peoples, this is a re-imagining of Rat's Nest from Halo 3 I have been working on. I would love some feedback and help. Not too familiar with lighting and spawns. I just really loved Rat's Nest and wanted to bring some of the same feels back in Halo 5. I have a video walk through with commentary and some screenshots to share.
Absolutely beautiful build! I love the new civil designs you to added to the layout of map. Keep us updated on the project.
This is definitely the right way to approach a remake for this game. The huge difference between how precision weapons function in H5 compared to H3 and how this affects the warthogs doom most Halo 3 remakes in this game. But, Rat's Nest doesn't feature too many of those longer sightlines and is segmented by line of sight blockage in the majority of cases so that really isn't a problem here. I like your thinking with pretty much all of these changes. Some of the railings around the atrium seem obstructive and unnecessary. Lighting in some spaces, notably the sniper area, is too dark and will negatively impact readability. These are small gripes and easily fixed, though. I'd love to play this some time. I look forward to seeing your progress.
Some of the concepts I like and some ideas are just.....no it seems like some of the ideas can be very abusive when it comes to survivialbility and also when coming to OBJ plays I can see it being very abusive and just being to OP to break the setup in some situations but I like how you're trying to add some new flare to the map since it halos 5 and such with Titan charge and John cenas and such but I don't think some of the concepts would work proficiently like how you planned it in your eyes. Also I like the whole underground feel even though rats nest was set underground in the edge of a cliff but now you've fully brought it underground like the campgain mission rats nest or was it birds nest? can't remember but still I like the aesthetics if you have any questions or want to give me a shout of a idea you had and want a opinion my GT is VwS Executioner or if you're play testing it at anytime I would like to help and such --- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2016 --- A as soon I finished my post I looked at your video and the related video to it was crows nest h3 campgain mission >.< I knew it was some sort of bird
I took a look at the map and have to say great job so far, and really liking that colour theme. However, I am concerned that you may be protecting the warthog a bit too much with it's' different routes and at the same time the routes could also make it easier for infantry in those areas too which kind of eliminates the warthog effectiveness on those routes. Also there are two warthogs for each team so maybe it is not as necessary to protect them as much, but the only way to really find out is to play test it. Now the other concern I have is the middle route where the bridge use to be connecting. Since you took that out there is now two ways in the middle area to get a flag or bomb to the other side. That may make it bit more challenging to get and objective through there, but then again Halo 5 is a bit faster pace so maybe not, hard to say from first glance. The vent gravity lift is interesting, but I am not to sure how well it will play in multiplayer. In conclusion, definitely play test this map. My gamer tag is Doc1777 if you need to play test it some time. (Just send me message to let me know if needed)
Thank you @Chesus Khrist , I am glad to hear that you like my interior design color choices 8D. @Psychoduck in regards to the rails, the hope in my placement was that they would serve the purpose of denying unwanted jump ups from the lower levels while also still allowing for the thruster jump off of the barrier and for the vulnerability that comes from the unshielded cover to be present. The railings on the catwalk are an attempt to obstruct a flag carrier and prolong the outside path vs. the fast cap path forcing someone cutting corners to clamber negating the potential time advantage of such a maneuver. Also, thank you for the feedback. @J2H Executioner I appreciate the concerns you bring up, would you mind if I added you and we took a little trip around the map sometime so you could elaborate on them for me? You seem pretty flippant about the new Spartan abilities but my hope in designing around them in experimental ways is that we can work towards some grounded design theory that addresses their role as a core mechanic of Halo 5’s gameplay. @Doctor Squishy , it is unfortunate that a lot of this map’s design is centered in untested theory that could totally fall apart in an actual play test scenario. The main concept I tried to apply in the alterations of the original map dealt with having three distinct play areas: vehicle, infantry, and hybrid areas. In my design I tried to make the vehicle additions as inhospitable to infantry as possible to allow for a possible but risky alternate path. Unfortunately, as you stated only play testing will see if any of my efforts land correctly. However, one point that will probably cause a bit of dissonance between our views is the Warthogs utility. I personally think that great effort needs to be taken to design around the weaker Warthog to provide the unique play experience that only BTB has to offer. I feel this current iteration of BTB just does a poor job of recreating experiences that the other Arena playlists and Warzone do better. Since we are unable to design the sandbox, we are stuck as Forgers trying to compensate through map design for a Frankenstein’d sandbox. My hope in making the center area less friendly for objective play was to add validity to the alternate paths encouraging interaction between vehicles and infantry. In the original design you could have a Warthog own the outer ring and it would do little to affect the potential of the opposing team’s victory. I’ve already got you added off of your DL, so I’ll definitely be reaching out to you during play testing. Again, I appreciate your feedback. One last thing, is there anyone that could assist me on the spawns? I would really like to work towards a play testable version and the spawning is currently the biggest hurdle I have and one I’m not quite sure I understand.
Alright, since we tested the map a bit yesterday I can give a bit more feedback. First thing is the spawning still needs work. I shouldn't have any of my teammates spawn with me when I am at the enemy base that makes it a bit unfair. Each side should have there spawn dedicated to there team and the then as you get closer to the middle they become more neutral so anyone can spawn on those. This makes is so they do not get reinforcements as quickly and probably boosts the effectiveness of using a vehicle. Another thing is the vehicles didn't feel very effective in the outer areas, though they were very effective with just transporting the flag carrier. I didn't feel much of a threat being in the "warthog zone" mainly because of the Spartans high mobility and plenty of cover to use. However, we were playing 6v6 so maybe it might be more prominent with 8v8. The map definitely needs a proper 8v8 Slayer test so I could get a better idea.
I have had some time to look over the map. I have not had the chance to play an actual slayer or objective match on the map yet to see how some of the elements work but I did spend a couple of hours testing stuff like the skill jumps and flow of the map. Now to the feedback Aesthetics: The map looks beautiful and definitely feels like a re-imagined H5 version of rats nest. The subtle team colors on each side is enough to be able to tell which base you are at without drowning you in the color. There is a couple things that i think could make it even better. The giant arrow on the red base side is not red where the one on the blue side is blue. Now that is a big unbalance in color and should be fixed right away . I also think the middle play area would benefit from having accent colors above the base entrances to better show which base is which. To me the middle feels it is missing that even though it is nothing major, more of just an opinion. Construction/Flow: The map is put together very well though there is a few places that i think can be adjusted for smoother flow for running and driving. First for the pipes on both sides near the grav lift the two arches on the incline are a little low so the player ends up bumping into them. I tested the negative effect it has and they both have a chance to bump the player off if they are sprinting or get caught on them if they are walking which can make you stop and sometimes that is bad in tactical situation. The problem is more predominant on the arch closest to the lift, the one farthest from the lift only effects you if you are directly in the middle or slightly closer to the wall. Second, the railings for the entrance ways at the secondary warthog paths near the rocket launcher are positioned in a way that causes the driver to hit them if they cut the corner just right. It is virtually in a blind spot when you are driving to it so it is hard to determine when you trying to cut the corner for a quick dodge. If the end of the railing was moved closer to the wall making it a wider entrance then it would help eliminate that hazard for a path that is suppose to help them avoid a hazard (rockets). Thirdly the turret space could benefit from an additional ledge to help get up to the ghost. I was testing the jump since on the original map it was rather easy to traverse that spot but I was finding it difficult to always get the jump and clamber from one of the podiums on either side of the turret to the ledge where the ghost is at. The most consistent way i found to reach that ledge is to sprint and clamber up the podium, continue running and then jump and crouch at the last second to reach the ghost. That method is two seconds faster than going though the lift and dashing towards the ledge and clambering up. Since not everyone is really good at doing all the special jumps (it was tough for me because of my button layout) that spot would benefit from an extra ledge or podiums that the player could use if they jumped from the podiums next to the turret or if the current podiums can be raised slightly to make it a more accessible alternative route. This will mostly be helpful for people who are near the turret that want to get up the ledge behind them without having to drop down and go through the tunnel and then up the lift. It will help with the flow and dynamics of the game play for that area. Fourth, I think the idea of the view slots above the entrances in the middle in place of the bridge is a good idea and i understand the reasoning behind it but it is eliminating an entrance that use to be there. If you want to make the middle more of a focus area then I think you should make it so a player can crotch through it. Having it like that would still restrict some of the accessibility but still leave an option open. when i was running through the infantry tunnels i felt like it was to enclosed to get to that space and i would have to go to the small opening that lead to the cat walk. If it was opened enough to crouch through then it would be a quick way for someone going through the tunnels to run and jump crouch just right to get to the middle faster. I suggest this so it helps make the middle a little more accessible if you want it to be more of a focus than the original. Placement: I noticed there seemed to be a lot of weapons on the map which could be a little excessive but i would have to play a few matches to be sure. The ghost also isn't in the middle and spawns close to the wall on the blue side, you might want to check the spawn on it since that does make it slightly unbalanced in the blue teams favor. Once I get the chance to play a few actual matches I will hopefully have additional feedback to give you on the gameplay aspect and see if what i brought up is relevant or not. In the meantime i hope this feedback provides helpful and if anything needs more clarification i will be happy to give it.
That is some A-Quality feedback Sir Iron Wolf. Also @MrBamble The last play test with capture the flag with the proper 8v8 game felt really nice, but I would like to point out that the gravity hammer was re-spawning quickly enough for there to be more than one on the field at one time.
@Spirit in Black thanks man, I hope it can bring you some enjoyable play experiences as well. @SIR IRON WOLF first off, I just want to convey to you how much I appreciate you taking the time to really dig into this map. I cannot express to you enough how much people like you bring to this community with your legit feedback and the time you commit into moving maps towards the best version of themselves for the community. For that I want to thank you man, you remind me why we are doing this. As for the feedback, I’m going to get on fixing all of that stuff immediately. Again, grade A work on your feedback man. I’m going to try and get you into a lobby with me so we can discuss some of your suggestions in greater detail about the jump up to the Ghost and center entrances. Again, this feedback is great man thank you very much. @Doctor Squishy I’m not sure how that spawn got so messed up, the closest anyone should ever spawn is at the 50 yard line. I’ll review the theater footage and see what happened. I also felt that the first play test was a little vehicle absent. It definitely felt right with a proper room. The weapon spawns are definitely an area that needs a bit a tweaking. I just have no experience with any of that jazz. I am sad there is no option to have the spawn pads hold off on spawning a new power weapon if one is still on the map. I will definitely add some time to the hammer though. Thanks again for showing up to help play test the map and for providing feedback.
Hornet’s Nest Update B.2: Hello Everybody! Just dropping a post about the updates made to the map after this last week’s play tests and feedback. Real fast before all that I just want to thank @Max Extra for the spawning assistance and @SIR IRON WOLF for the polishing feedback. And of course all the awesome people over at HaloCustoms.com: @MartianMallCop , @Psychoduck , @Squally DaBeanz , @alex quit , and CDX34 for all the feedback that is helping refine this map into a more enjoyable experience. Minor Updates: 1) Changed the name to Hornet’s Nest 2) Widened all doorways and added visibility in areas 3) Removed the Awkward Ice Chunks 4) Fixed the outside Warthog ramp Bigger Updates: 1) Added Location names. 2) Removed Gravity Hammer Vent and High Windows 3) Modified Windows looking into the Middle Area 4) Opened up and simplified the Outside Catwalk area 5) Reworked the Sideways Crates Area 6) Added the @WARHOLIC Jump Up Moving Forward: Hopefully I can get some more play test matches on this guy with the modifications to see if the changes had the intended effect and addressed the concerns brought up. One issue that I am having that I would really appreciate help with is frame rate drops. If anyone would be willing to help me crack that cookie I would appreciate it.
I played some games on this last night in Max's testing lobby. Great map! Your remake is good enough that it brings back memories of high school...I like that you altered it for Halo 5 a bit. I've played a few remakes of maps from 2 and 3 recently where they weren't scaled up and it's like...well...this is almost as fun as I remember it. The only issue I had with this map (and I'm revealing my Noob status by telling you this) is that the two windows which overlook the middle alley are a bit too clear. On two different occasions, I spotted an enemy through the window, fired a few shots and then realized I was shooting at glass...And then promptly got my ass handed to me. I also saw a couple other players make this same mistake. Perhaps make the glass in these windows a little brighter, or give them some blue / cyan to make it more obvious that this isn't an opening. Otherwise everything about this map was on point. Excellent job! I love the name too
Again a really fun experience like the one its built after. This map worked super well with Slayer, Ctf, and Strong holds as well as the team sizes that we played with. Like Pat said the middle glass I thought was a bit clear The spawn just seems a bit off for Strongholds maybe adding a strong hold spawn zones The strong holds still seem a bit large and I would recomend shrinking them down and working on not having each team spawn in a zone There was an FPS issue from teams moving to the out room of both bases to the mid i think lighting is the cause may want to check it out. at Rockets i think dropping the terrain bumb a little bit would be great i feel worried jumping out for the rockets. Overall i think its one of the best if not the best remix/ remake of Rats nest.
First off a great forger named Max Extra encouraged me to write feedback on the maps we played in his custom game night. Map has a very familiar feeling ambience compared to the original. You managed to keep the old pathways while also adding new ones, which feel like they could've been there before (my favorite is the underpass right by the middle stronghold). The color change also gave the "remastered" feeling giving the map a pleasing look. Great remake, great forger, I want moarrrrr!
Loving these H3 BTB remixes! This and Dugout look very interesting... I hope to see these in MM at some point.
Again another great run for this map through Forged Friday. CTF played super fast but that was because red team was just sucking it up lol. I love the changes youve made with strong holds and over all with the map. The only thing i find i have an issue with on the map is that the inside part of the loop is congested and i find it rather difficult to drive. the lumps next to the doors and the first non jersey barrier structure impede the wart hog path a bit more than i prefer. I think this map is still one of the best that filters through Forged Fridays. cant wait to play the next version.
Not much to add beyond what others have said. This is a great map that is both an homage to the original and a solid playing experience with the new H5 mechanics. And would you look at those screenshots? It's just an uber-sexy map. This is the remake against which all others should be measured. Terrific job!