Halo 5 Static Spawning What static spawning is: Static spawning is a weapon/power-up spawn system that is default in Halo CE. In this system items spawn in set intervals on the map independent of when they are picked up. For example, on Damnation from Halo CE, Rockets have a 2 minute spawn time. Since it is static, rockets will spawn (in a 20 minute game) exactly at 20:00 (match start), 18:00, 16:00, 14:00, 12:00, etc. More specifically if you pick up rockets at 18:12 or 18:47, they will still spawn exactly at 18:00. The purpose of static spawning: Static spawning is used in all competitive game modes (except for Halo 2 since it was impossible to set, without mods) in halo. This is because static spawning increases the pace of the game by constantly spawning weapons at specific time intervals and it keeps the game more consistent, where Halo 2 and all default modes of H3, HR, H4 have dynamic spawning which creates many random elements. Methods of implementing static spawning: Drop Spawing - Halo 3 being the first game to have forgemode allowed high customization of gamemodes. Eventually it was found out that you could get a weapon to spawn mid-air by placing it on top of a fixed scenery item such as a barrel or crate, then deleting the fixed object. Off spawn, the weapon would fall (causing a disturbance to its origin, by tricking the system) and automatically reset its respawn timer. This method can be done in every forge to date, however comes with many problems. Cons: -In Halo 3, you could only set spawning by 10 seconds and it didn't instantly start the timer after the weapon was disturbed, it was delayed 3 seconds, and if you picked up the sniper to early, it would throw off the spawning. -In Halo Reach, this system was much easier since you could set the item from "fixed" to "normal" without selecting it, and set the time to the second (however this was still of by a about 0.5 seconds). Though this still had a few inconsistencies and was off by 10 seconds due to the initial spawn cam or loadout screen. This resulted in spawn times of 15:10 (match start), 13:10, 11:11, 9:11, 7:12, 5:13, etc. -This method worked in Halo 4 just like Reach, however due to the ~10 second weapon despawn time, there was much less control in game. -In Halo 5 this method works similarly, however you need to place an object under the weapon (which must be set to respawn on disturbance) that is set to be excluded in all gametypes. Again the problem is that it spawns when the match starts, but the timer doesn't start until after the cinematic (which is 13 seconds long) so you'll have spawn times at 12:13 (match start), 10:13, 8:13... Weapon Pads - Weapon Pads on static timers and are a great feature to Halo 5. It is also the first time since Halo CE that static spawning is default in game. The great thing about weapon pads is the ability to "nade" items to you, despite it only working with plasma grenades. Cons: -When someone picks up an item off a weapon pad, the enemy is alerted to your position. -It is displayed on the map 30 seconds in advance. Despite how easy it is to time static weapons, displaying weapons on the map removes a skill gap of map knowledge and actually knowing the spawn times of the weapon (for experienced competitive players this is irrelevant, but I still don't favor it.) -Complete lack of customization options... If you have played Halo 5, you will know that sniping in this game is probably the easiest of all. So for example, if I wanted to make a classic Halo CE style map with a 30-60 static respawn time, I would probably want to set the sniper to have 0-1 spare clip. Unfortunately, this is not an option. Placing multiple weapons (H2A Method) - This by far my least favorite method, and how it works is self-explanatory. Basically you just go into forge, place one (we'll say sniper) sniper rifle to spawn initially, but to never respawn after that, then place another 15-30 sniper rifles on top of each other to each location, each will spawn once in intervals of however long you wish (preferably 30 seconds - 2 minutes.) Cons: -I believe this requires scripting like in H2A (which is okay since we're only concerned about H5 right now.) -Requires an insane amount of patience and time. -Is easy to mess up on, and hard to do. -Games must be limited in time (For example, if you place 20 snipers each a minute apart, snipers will stop spawning after 20 minutes.) -Process must be repeated for every static item on the map, which really limits your object budget. Scripting - The last method is anything that involves scripting. I have come up with a way that works only for power-ups where you make two identical timer scripts with a 13.00 second initial delay, one for position reset and one for respawn. However this only works for powerups because power-ups are considered "deleted" off the map when you pick them up, and by default item timer scripts are set to respawn after "death or deletion." The problem is this doesn't work with weapons because weapons aren't considered "deleted" until they despawn or you drop them without ammo. This is also made difficult since they removed the "max active items on map" option. In conclusion, if anyone has any ideas on how to create static weapons in Halo 5 forge, PLEASE let me know. The method must not have any of these cons. So it must be... - Simple (Where you only place 1-2 of each weapon at most per location) - Use a regular weapon (not a weapon pad) - Must spawn on the exact time interval (10:00, 8:00, 6:00, 4:00... +/- a few hundred milliseconds) I've been looking for a solution to this since forge was released but haven't found anything on the topic of this, so I decided to write this up today... Some ideas I have, but haven't tested include: setting the weapon to X spawn time (on disturbance) then placing a block underground that moves every X time to bump the weapon. I'm also trying to see if there is a way to possibly to drop spawning but set an initial delay or to script it with the method above I described for power-ups, where the weapon respawns even if you are holding it... Anyways, let me know!
Yes please, lol. I've tried the scripting but if you don't use all the ammo & drop the weapon then the next one will not spawn. The drop spawn method is a little buggy as well so I think I'm stuck with the method of spawning a seperate sniper that doesn't respawn. I don't think it's too big of a deal in my case yet due to the fact that I'm making 2v2 maps atm. These are only 12 minutes long (I think) and imo 1 minute is too fast for the op sniper of H5. In my latest map I'm having dualing snipers with no spare clips on 90 sec. I'm keeping plasma caster on the pad which comes with 15 shots total at 2 minutes as the main power weapon.
This got me curious, so I checked it out. - Weapons cannot Spawn without Despawning first where you only have 1 of each weapon at a time. - Disturbance occurs everytime the weapon is picked up. Therefore, you cannot use neither Respawn timer or Spawn/Despawn scripts. You can, however, use multiple weapons and Spawn/Despawn scripts, but if you only use a couple there is a slight chance that a player will have it despawned out of their hands. Weapon Pads will have to do. There are benefits to the countdown though, like not needing a coach to compete for one (all the "best" teams have one), and there is some risk to controlling a Weapon Pad. I did like the ability to gain a Sniper without all the noobs fighting over it like before though (more challenging 1-hit weapons a bad thing? maybe for noobs like me). There is also some benefit to using non-Weapon Pad -Respawn on Deletion-, since it limits how many Power Weapons are up at one time. And, using -Respawn on Disturbance- will make the weapon similar to how Power-ups work where you time it based on when you picked it up last. Both settings give a reward for controlling it. All 3 methods are pretty "consistent", except Weapon Pads can be accessible to both teams since the timer is not based on the team who controls it. I think the H:CE timers were old-fashioned and didn't add anything better than we have now, but they really should add the option to shutoff call-outs and countdowns. In summary, don't waste your time trying to figure out a way that doesn't exist and isn't needed.
The problem is how much ammo is in the weapon pad weapons. Somehow 343 didn't think we would want to change that. In a 1v1 or 2v2 we don't want a sniper to spawn with 12-16 shots (whatever it spawns with)
True. Devs need to be more detail-oriented for sure. But, what's the difference between having 2min spawns with 8 shots and 3min with 12 shots? You could just make it spawn less often.
I'm sorry but that simply isn't a valid option in lower team sizes. A twelve bullet sniper is just too many bullets for a 1v1 regardless of frequency. That's 12 potential kills. In steady hands that's a near victory for just picking up the weapon. And even where extending the spawn timer is somewhat valid, like in 4v4, it shouldn't be that restricting. Having weapons come up more frequently dramatically changes the way a map plays. These limitations are unacceptable. If you're a fan of how weapon pads currently operate that's fine, but it's another thing to say an alternative method "isn't needed." Unfortunately, it seems drop spawns are the best replacement for weapon pads in H5, but I hope 343 will give us more options for weapon pads. At the very least an ammo count.
Drop spawning doesn't seem to work unfortunately. I reverified this just to make sure I did it wrong. Invisible Blocker: - On Timer, Initial Delay :13, Repeat :60, Despawn - On Timer, Initial Delay :73, Repeat :60, Spawn Sniper - Respawn, On Disturbance, Timer :58 - Despawn, On Disturbance, Timer :58 (was on :30 but spawned multiple Snipes at spawn location) That part worked, however, when you pick up the weapon it respawns after the :58 timer since it resets the Disturbance again. I get your point on the ammo, but you exaggerate. Watching top level 1v1s and 2v2s doesn't revolve around one team getting all Snipe kills (Railgun yes). But, honestly, instead of trying to put a bandaid on 1v1s and 2v2s that hasn't worked well in a weapon control setting since Halo:CE, why not just eliminate all that and have no weapons or powerups? Even when friends do 1v1s, they're like no using Powerups! It just makes more sense to me. However, you lose the versatility and consistency with Matchmaking. The camping is already bad enough for 1v1 and 2v2, so removing all the advantage you gain in the first push of the game would definitely improve the gamemode.
My point isn't that one player will get 12 kills. My point is it's bad game design and isn't a balanced reward system. You argue that 2v2s are too campy and then suggest removing the movement incentives. Lower ammo counts with weapons spawning frequently screams at players to move. If you want a campy game either lengthen spawn timers on pick-ups so one team is given the advantage for a longer period (promoting a standoff) or remove weapons all together and give people no reason to move from thier spawn. Why push at all? Also this is Halo. I honestly feel like you're are trolling. Weapon pickup are part of what defines the game at any player count. If you want to know how people have been setting up drop spawns, check out this thread: http://www.forgehub.com/threads/halo-5-gold-pro-t1.150040/ It is by no means perfect, but what you are advocating I fundamentally disagree with as a player, spectator, and forger.
Don't be so defensive. In a 1 on 1 situation, a player will always or be obligated to have a weapon or powerup advantage resulting in one player hiding as a tactic to either hold the lead and not make mistakes that lose the advantage or as a tactic to gain the advantage back when down. It's a better display of skill when you focus such battles only on map positioning, spawn prediction, and defeating your opponent by the same tool and capabilities that he/she spawns with, which also promotes engagement rather than evasion. But, that's just my opinion as I prefer a skillset similar to H:CE where map control didn't dictate the pace of the match; it was more about who had the better shot. Drop Spawns No need to tell me how they work. Problem with it in Halo 5 is that when you pick up the weapon, the Disturbance timer is set from that point and doesn't respawn on the initial Disturbance interval. Don't take me word for it though, and test it. Let us know if you get it to work correctly.
The problem with drop spawns is not whether they work @SepticonWarrior, because they do in many ways. The problem is that when you add static timers in games, you want all weapons to spawn with relative intervals. So weapons will eventually spawn at the same time (without a 13 or 10 second difference). Not to mention drop spawning is not consistent. With weapon pads, come many more problems. When using a rocket launcher, weapon pads come default with 4 shots, which is fine. Since rockets are fairly balanced in Halo 5, given the utility weapon, I stick with the two minute weapon pads (not to mention rockets are better placed in the open, so you have the option to "nade" or "combat evolved" them). The problem with weapon pads is the sniper, and I highly disagree with 343i's 3 minute timer for them. Snipers are labeled top tier powerweapons (in forge) when that isn't their place. In terms of balance, yes 3 minutes for 12 shots (for the Halo 5 sniper at least) works. However with such long timers, you slow the game down so much (at least for 2v2 and 1v1 gamemodes). So if I were to set the sniper to 1 minute which would be ideal, it would only be balanced with 0 (maaaybe... 1) spare clips. Since I'm stuck with a 12 shot sniper, weapon pads just aren't an option (not to mention more than 1 weapon pad on a map just clutters your screen and gets annoying.) I'm sure if 343 is aware of this but I assume they will add a "max count" option in the future. To make a point @SepticonWarrior, there is no argument when it comes to 1v1s and 2v2s. With a Halo 2 style spawn system where weapons don't respawn until deleted, the result will be very slow, campy gameplay. This is just because when you control the power weapons on the map, you don't need to move (considering defense, especially while holding powerweapons, always have the advantage). In CE, if you camped, you lost, which is one reason the game had the highest skill gap. Despite you being right @SepticonWarrior about your shot in CE being a high skill gap (lead, no magnetism, low aa, etc. which is highly misconceived by the pistol being a 3 shot kill), saying HaloCE relied on shot over map control is simply not true. In fact, due to how much the game is based on map control, I almost consider it a strategy game in first person. ...But I'm not here to argue whether the static, Halo 2 or even the Halo Reach spawn system is necessary for 2v2s or 1v1s, I'm just looking for solutions from advanced forgers' creativity. In forges current state, the only static spawn system for T3 weapons is weapon pads, which in conclusion is not an option for comp. 1v1s and 2v2s, disturbance timers (either using drop spawning, or bumping) which is inconsistent, manual spawn, which limits your game time and object count, or scripting which doesn't work right now since T3 weapons are set by default to spawn on deletion. Halo 5's forge is a powerful tool (not to sound overly optimistic), so I know there is a method. ---------------------------- aPK goes over H5 static spawning the Gold Pro V1 thread, where there is some minor discussion over.
I still disagree that in a deathmatch situation, mano a mano, you reward skillful plays better when you remove the rock-paper-scissors advantages you gain from certain weapon pickups. These "imbalances" are there to make the game more interesting also resulting punishment from dieing, so whether you agree or disagree, I'm not here to try and persuade you. It's not as bad in 2v2s where you can use teamwork to overcome these imbalances. There is still map control with no power weapons. The reason I brought up H:CE was because gaining a Power-Up or weapon, heck even a position on the map, did not ensure you enough kills to control the game nor required you to seek a weapon before engaging. I had read the Gold Pro thread a few weeks ago, then again more recently and there was never a good indication of the method actually working. But, I was wondering what was inconsistent of it? I was able to get the weapon to land on the minute each minute by using a :58 respawn timer. The issue I kept running into was the fact that everytime I picked up the weapon it would not respawn on the set timer but instead respawn a minute after I picked it up. That's why I'm set on "it doesn't work". Hopefully, you all get it figured out though, the way you want it.
I think it's just bugged. The nonscripted Despawn timers don't work sometimes. I was able to get the drop spawn to work consistently by using Solid Blocks instead of Invisible Blockers (plus only 1 of the 2 blocks I used didn't even Despawn), but Sniper would just stack on top and wouldn't despawn. I'm not sure if you just can't use scripted despawns or it's how the weapon lands, or maybe it's just random but once you get it it works. However, that leaves the stacking of the weapon to be an issue.
For drop spawning you have to turn off scripts, because any scripts dealing with spawning make the weapon spawn only after the previous one despawns. You can use any block as long as you set it to not spawn in any of the 4 gamemodes. I think I've come to the conclusion that it isn't really possible to get right, though I haven't completely investigated all possibilities... 343 is updating this game all the time so I'm just going to see what they end up doing with forge.
I wouldn't specifically say 343, because honestly 2v2s haven't played well since ce. Out of all halo games since ce, none of them have really focused on 2v2s (sorry to repeat my self...), they have all been 4v4 based or higher, because of slower spawn times, weaker utility weapons, and in general lower individual skill gaps. Halo 2 is an exception depending on the map and settings and I would say halo reach gold pro, but bungie nor 343 had anything to do with that besides zb and bleed through. I do think 343 will come to a realization since bravo is familiar with the h1 community and as far as I know was behind the mcc h1 playlist.
I was meant to say bungie too :/ Thats kinda my point, they had nothing to do with GP, nor the GP version of Halo 4, which were both excellent 2 v 2 experiences, and played much better than their 4 v 4 counterparts in their game, and far superior to the mm doubles playlists. Bravo isint really a playlist guy, nor was really "responsible" for the CE playlist, which was still messed up in many ways. 343 have had 3 different attempts at 2 v 2 Halo 5 (including last weekends shocking effort) and messed up every time. Its safe to say they'l never get it right.
100% agreed. 343 has not showed capability of making a proper and balanced 2v2 experience. Of course that Valentines weekend playlist was more of a joke meant to have a casual appeal, rather than a serious 2v2 playlist (which just doesn't work when the majority of 2v2 players are competitive not casual. So 343 really needs to start getting serious.), but cluttered maps with less than 4 general spawn locations, not to mention a lack of grenades off spawn is unacceptable. I hope GP can come out with a balanced Meta for matchmaking 2v2s that 343i will consider using. Preferably all custom maps some being disk maps with certain modifications (e.g. GP reach Boardwalk, prisoner, etc.). Maybe the CE M6D could be the utility (if it's not hitscan/ bullet magnetic). Not to get off topic though, 343 needs well designed 2v2 settings (realistically being meta, with most spartan abilities), not 12 minutes of crouch walking with SMG, shotties, or Stormrifles with radar, until a powerup spawns, not to mention the incredibly easy 12 bullet sniper with a ridiculous 3 minute timer. Just no.
To be fair, Halo Default has never catered to 2v2 even in H:CE where you had to change it to Slayer Pro. I seem to remember the 1v1 playlist in Halo 2 was SMG starts when it came out . Halo 5 Default atleast gives you feasible competition as compared to H1-3 Default Slayer. M6D starts could be cool. It will be hitscan though with large reticule and bullet mag just like it was in CE. That's what people prefer anyway since it gives more control and less guesswork. But, I'll leave it at that.