Let's talk about the Community Cartographer process

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by Ray Benefield, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Doju

    Doju Forerunner
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    I can only imagine the incredible quality 343 produce by the time they get to the 11th/12th map.
     
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  2. SecretSchnitzel

    SecretSchnitzel Donald Trump
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    Already scraping the bottom of the barrel if you ask me.
     
  3. FrostPhoenix0

    FrostPhoenix0 Mythic
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    *grabs popcorn*
     
  4. NOKYARD

    NOKYARD GrifballHub
    Cartographer Forge Critic Senior Member

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    *allergic to popcorn*
     
  5. Red Paint

    Red Paint Legendary

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    SETTLER
     
  6. Nitro

    Nitro Guilty Spark

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    Is it just me, but couldn't we all drop the shenanigans and be big boys and girls. I just don't understand how we all bicker about stuff all the way back from Halo Reach. Grow up, this isn't high school. We're all here for that one common thing. Moving forward, let's all be more constructive and receptive to those criticisms.

    CCs, you're doing a decent job and I'm sure you'll do a fine job going forward.
     
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  7. SecretSchnitzel

    SecretSchnitzel Donald Trump
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    Yeah, let's all cheer for a system that doesn't promote healthy competition that rewards the best forgers! Whoohooo!

    The CCs aren't doing a bad job, they just mucked this first task up royally. The whole point of this current dialogue is to show that the community doesn't approve and to call on the CCs to step up their game and be the community leaders we know they're capable of being. I have faith that the missteps taken with this task will not be repeated going forward.
     
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  8. aPK

    aPK Greatest Forger Alive
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    If that's what you got from my post more power to ya.
     
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  9. Nitro

    Nitro Guilty Spark

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    That was directly/indirectly pointed at that specific comment. You're not the first to complain about the CCs/System/343 or whatever for the past several years, I just think it's funny that people still complain about the same things. I left the Halo community for 2 years and there are a lot people complaining about those same people/issues. I'm not saying for you roll over and let the big dog take the win, but what's the point of complaining about the same issues? This isn't directly pointed towards you, hope you understand this, I truly want an honest answer from someone.

    We all have to remember first and foremost, that Halo is a game. We all share the same passion of forging, to some degree some more than others. I just want make this time around more about the love for the game/forge rather than the other way around. I don't need fame or glory to make this the best game around, I want the community to help cultivate that feeling. By getting out there (when time permits) meeting new players, show them support in their map development, and last but not least having fun playing Halo.

    No ill will, just tired of the negativity that WE the forgers get and I for one want to support this movement.
     
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  10. AnonFriction

    AnonFriction Legendary
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    Honestly I feel like the best way to do it would be similar to how Valve does with all their games, regardless of it being maps, cosmetics, etc. Valve rarely makes specific promises or holds contests, they simply have the Steam workshop. Instead of having a group looking to bring the best stuff from the community to them they can look at the workshop and go hey cool look at this map or this cosmetic it's got tons of backing in the community, then every month or two they have their little in game events and add new content which for the most part is usually really good :D (If what i'm saying doesn't make sense just ignore me :p )
     
  11. ToRn1ne

    ToRn1ne Mythic

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    I may have written that section poorly, but the "fear" I'm referencing is in relation to what was mentioned in the OP as one reason for why the CC's didn't make this ask public knowledge. It was stated that they worried if they made a public ask for Breakout maps some Forgers could have taken that as "If you make a Breakout map it'll be put into matchmaking," which is a "fear" on the CC's end of creating a false promise. I'm not saying that people fear interacting with Breakout maps, that'd be ridiculous no matter how much the mode is disliked by parts of the community.

    I also don't believe or claim there is some scheme to throw community Breakout maps under the bus; the simple fact is that Breakout is unpopular so it doesn't get attention which is totally reasonable. The point of that section of my post was more to indicate that if CC's want to create an environment where there are maps for every experience, as what was stated earlier by Godly, then each Forge creation needs some level of attention in at least a feedback capacity by community members. This is something that CC's could initiate by making the effort to comment on less popular experiences, like Breakout maps, even if it is just looking at screenshots or a video walkthrough. However, I'm aware Godly is mostly voicing their opinion here, so I wouldn't expect CC's who don't hold Godly's same interests to followthrough on such a task.

    I didn't mean to imply that each time a 343i ask comes up that FH readily whips out some kind of contest as I'm somewhat aware of the time and resources that goes into a contest like the FH ones. The idea I pitched of a panel is directly for the CC's and less so for FH as the contests here on FH appear to go well as is, so don't fix what isn't broken.
     
  12. Given To Fly

    Given To Fly MP Level Designer
    343 Industries

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    (1.) Breakout not being on the communities mind is exactly why there should have been an announcement. Clearly it is not a favorite among a large section of the forging community, but having known there was a need for them, they would have been crafted. The time frame does not matter with breakout maps because the gameplay has exponentially fewer elements to it. For instance, forgers only have to worry about an initial encounter. There are no respawns, no balancing power weapons, no real aesthetics, and no dynamic flowing pathways. Breakout is such a shallow game from a forging or developer standpoint. Great breakout maps can be made as quickly as one night and I think Epicenter shows that.

    Everyone building for matchmaking is in no way a bad mind set. It helps forgers push their creations in ways they might not have before. Limiting creativity is only a problem if EVERYONE wants to make 4v4 hyper competitive. Quality mini games for matchmaking is important as well, as we should have fun yet challenging mini games. There is no excuse to have "husky raid" I believe it was called, which was essentially "blue room of death" from Halo 3. (The tight hallway under one of the snowbound bases with random weapons.) That is a horrible example of a mini game. Or anything for Action Sack. We need things like conquest, lift off, cherry bombers, or splatoon. Out of the normal game experiences that still have a degree of competitiveness.

    As for "contracting" out work... This only works if you open that up to the whole community. I think people interested in making MM quality maps should all have the potential to submit their creations. If they can't finish in time, that is on them rather than never having the opportunity and feeling cheated. I understand the desire to look for "what's already out there" but I think everyone benefits when it is held more like a contest to involve the whole community. For instance, community voting on Waypoint or Halo channel for their favorites of the submition pool determined by the CC's. Afterall, this way the CC's aren't hunting down maps and missing strong contenders, because the people who make the maps are supplying them straight to you guys. It is about involving everyone, and eliminating a chance of corruption or favoritism. (Something the forge community has suffered through since 2008)

    We need transparency, fair chances, deadlines, and incentive. If the problem lies somewhere between 343 and the CC's then I vote the CC's just be disbanned until 343 get's their act together. Another important thing to remember is that if they continue to have gametype specific forge playlists (Community Breakout) there will be problems with the current system anyway. Instead of simply alienating forge maps to a specific gametype playlist, look for existing maps for all types of play at the same time. Add them to the seperate playlists and see if the community likes them via voting.
    For example, add 2 maps to team slayer, 2 to breakout, 2 to BTB, or simply add them as they come in. The problem isn't providing a false promise to people, the problem is seeing a community playlist and saying "why didn't I know about this? I could have pushed my map for that!" When things are hidden from us, things fall apart. Whether the CC's thought they had our best interests at heart... (I doubt it) or not, we need the chance for ourselves. We do not need a monopoly.
     
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  13. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    What I miss?
     
  14. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    Down with establishment!
     
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  15. xxBRYTExx

    xxBRYTExx Ancient
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    MY FELLOW FORGERS WHEN YOU ELECT ME FORGE PRESIDENT I WILL GET YOU ALL LAID. VOTE xxBRYTExx :devil:

    -Xandrith if you edit your post it make my post not make any sense
     
    #35 xxBRYTExx, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
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  16. WAR

    WAR Cartographer
    The Creator Forge Critic

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    Coming from someone who rates each of his own maps five stars...that sounds like healthy competition.
     
  17. Suicufnoc

    Suicufnoc Ancient
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    Not that I want this, but I want to point out that this is incorrect. If the majority of the forge community is making remakes, and the CCs put them into Matchmaking, that is clearly the community driving the direction of the game, not the cartographers.
    The sad reality is that most(?) forgers mostly make remakes, and most(?) players mostly want to play remakes.

    This does sound ideal to me, but to be fair to the CCs, 343 decides what they want, not the CCs. The CCs can only try to do the best with which 343 gives them.
     
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  18. Auggie Burr

    Auggie Burr Promethean
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    I've been around for a while, and reading through this thread brings back old topics I use to talk about.

    The only real issue that i've seen is that it seems that only the CC's and their close friends/acquaintances know about what's really going on in Forgehub. Everyone else is mindlessly pumping out maps in hopes of getting recognition for their work which will never happen.

    In my experience, some of the best forgers i've ever met usually have no idea who the cartographers are..

    So I think more reach on the cartographers side would be vital to keeping the forging community up to date and help improve the community as a whole.
     
  19. NOKYARD

    NOKYARD GrifballHub
    Cartographer Forge Critic Senior Member

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    I agree, and it's something we are discussing internally.
     
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  20. Doju

    Doju Forerunner
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    No, you just see more remakes because sites like r/halo/waypoint lose their **** over remakes, so they get exposed more.

    Trust me on this, the general community voting on maps would be a disaster, it would be based on looks only, and the game would be a lot worse for it.
     
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