A common belief held in the Forge community is that maps need to be upscaled for Halo 5's gameplay. Do you agree with this? I'd say it's mostly a misconception. We do indeed have more movement options that can more or less let players fly across the map, but our starting weapon isn't the Battle Rifle anymore. The Pistol has good range, but hipfiring with it gives you about 100 feet for your reticle to remain in the red zone. So while some maps may need to be adjusted if there are areas that the Thrust or Clamber breaks, I think the overall size of a map does not need to be "scaled" to the extent that the map will feel significantly bigger. Otherwise, the Pistol loses its utility. Vertical scaling is one thing, but horizontal scaling tends to ruin sightlines and these engagement distances. Of course, there are exceptions, and this doesn't really apply to Big Team Battle maps, especially because you spawn with the Battle Rifle. I'd just caution against those who make old maps much larger than they need to be. I don't even think Truth needed to be as big as it is.
It's just important to not have a blanket approach to the scaling. It should definitely be situational, as the gameplay is paramount.
In general, I think original maps should maintain similar sizes to maps of older titles, depending on team size. It sounds like this is pointed at remakes though. I'd say generally the same is true, but clamber can significantly alter pathing and positional prediction enough that scale changes might be needed. It really depends on the map. I agree the overall scale of the map shouldn't be altered to compensate, but rather the specific problem areas. That being said, it's ultimately up to the forger. If their goal is to replicate the exact look of an older map and play with h5 mechanics, although it is against my preference, the best choice for them might be to slightly upscale the entire map. I agree that for BTB this shouldn't be a problem. Though routes might change or become easier, in most cases I don't expect it to change the overall flow of the map. And so I would highly recomend as close to original scaling as possible. Gameplay is paramount in my view, but that's not always the case with forgers.
It can definitely apply to remakes, whether they're original designs from previous games or official dev maps. But it also applies to completely original designs that start out too big. When you're working with blocks and other "metal" surfaces, you can more or less scale the map exactly how you want it to. Once you get into 2v2 and 4v4 maps using natural terrain however, things become more difficult if you're using rocks.
i think halo 5 has a larger model size with a faster base movement speed which which works better with a larger scale so yes, i do think we need to scale maps up but not by as much as i'm seeing a lot of forgers do. more segmentation can also help.
Being able to avoid all of the paths and clamber to the top level defeats the purpose of those paths to begin with. Goldleaf is a pretty good example. Not to pick on Xandrith, but all of the pathing on that map can be avoided by simply clambering up to the ledge above. It breaks the flow. Obviously Jetpacks were worse though.
I don't disagree with that, but there are some maps where not being able to instantly access high ground is part of their design and a mechanic that changes that literally breaks the design. Whether it's better or worse is up to the individual, but it does change the way the map plays. Some people think Narrows is broken in this game - and therefore not worth remaking - because you can Thrust off the lift to top mid. Others think it makes the map better.
That's simply not true. Dev maps in H5 are designed with clamber in mind. Paths are designed for players to make choices. Remaking old maps removes that design, because thrust and clamber didn't exist in those titles. Remaking a map, can have as much to do with emulating past gameplay as emulating look. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with either approach. It's up to the forger in the end. But understand that in dev maps and original forge maps, these clamber paths are designed. If you want to completely remove designed flow from a map as you remake it, do it. But from a gameplay perspective, it's likely your map will be flawed, as lack of location prediction can easily destroy the balance of a map.
There are absolutely ways to disable clamber on a map. For one, it requires the edge to be smooth, otherwise the game will be unable to calculate which surface the player is clambering onto. Invisible blockers can exploit this and be used to prevent clambers.
Haunted I agree with that if you are saying 8'x8' is a 1x1, because it seems small but we are also coming from H2A where everything is small. I would say the maps don't have to be like they were in halo 4. I feel like the best unit to build off of (I have yet to build of of it) is 10' this requires a little simple math to do but when I was helping Career find a scaling that felt right for Arca as both 12' and 8' seemed to big and small. Another thing is that there is friction on your cursor outside of red range but it decreases over distance. @no god anywhere just pull your block that covers the ugly out a tiny bit and it will stop the clamber I had a map be impossible to clamber on doing this.
yea as 8x8 = 1x1, but even at 10x10 as 1x1 i find that because the base movement is pretty fast you can navigate through areas quicker which makes the map player smaller. personally i'm finding 12x12 as 1x1 scales better.
I've tried and failed to make ledges unable to be clambered. I've only succeeded in making it harder, but always seem to find an angle that works. Even if there is a way, which I don't doubt, I think it would make a really great tool feature. Go into the objects menu and toggle off clamber. If someone has a proven method, I'd really like to see a video tutorial. I'm a visual learner, so reading only goes so far for me. But yes. Turning off clamber seems like a good option for troubled areas. And yes, I'm not saying after these maps are made some of the clambers and paths will not prove well balanced. I'm not against that, I just think you can't rule out options, such as having to alter scale.
I find 12 to be a little big but my first map was built base off of 12 to start. Honestly, I have seen maps built with both 8' scaling and 12' scaling and it seemed like a good size but I have seen other maps where one feels too big and the other too small.
I agree that 10 feet for every 1 forge unit, seems like the truest conversion. It's unfortunate that most pieces are not multiples of 10. I think it ultimately depends on the map.
are you sure they weren't using 16x16 as scaling? that seems to overscale everything. i haven't seem much issue with 12x12 personally but its all situational, there are definitely times when 8x8 works better so a combination of both provides the best balance. would be nice if we had pieces scaled around 10x10, to do it atm would require at least doubling the item budget.
I think there are some maps from older games that would benefit tremendously from this one's sandbox. Construct could potentially be one of them. 10 feet would make the most sense, but since everything is a multiple of 8 we don't have much wiggle room in that regard.
No I am talking about maps based off of 12. I have seen what you are talking about and it is bad. I feel like with some stuff not all at 12 seems big. I have a map based off of 12 that seems fine but I started making xzamples map with this and it seemed large. Arca also seemed large with this scaling. Use the 20x20 for 10 scaling and in spots you cannot use a 20x20 use a 8 and a 2. It requires more piece replacement when building that is all. Everything doesn't have to be a base of 10 it is just good scaling for flooring. Just make sure you think about that stuff when designing and building.
this, but i scale it to spartan height and dmr pistal distance, mostly because im not a fan of AR and BR in this game personally