Lockdown (Formally "Lockup Remastered")

SEspider submitted a new map:

Lockup Remastered - Lockout remake with additional paths added to refresh the map.

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I'll be posting pictures soon. I'm trying to get footage of many players playing on the new paths, for size reference. Not easy to do since Halo5's theater doesn't record custom games.

Thanks for the info. I'll update that info now.

That would be awesome. I'd like to see both versions in MP. But I highly doubt that will happen.

 

I'll be replying to this comment in one post and to others in another post. I'll also be splitting this reply up in parts, to prevent confusion on my replies. So, please, bare with me.

I didn't originally make this remake. That was ViciousSubtlety. So some of your concerns/questions may be best made on his post. As for how this particular version plays in Halo5, I agree with you. I made these changes so that it doesn't play like the original or any of the remakes. For me, I hated how easy it was to control the entire map from certain points. Most notably the top of the towers or the bottom mid. The four major changes I've made to the layout is specifically to make the map feel new and to open it up.

Those extra jumps from Sword spawn, to the floor above it, have always been there. The only change I made, in this regard, was adding a simple clamber at the bottom of Red Tower to Red Mid. If by "S1 to S2", you mean Sniper tower, then I can't help ya there. That bridge Clamber is brand new. And no one has to take it. It's simply another option, nothing more.

The columns in the middle do feel small, but they are pretty well sized. However; they are always going to feel small when there are higher vantage sights on the map. In this case, the top of Red and Sniper towers.

The camping spots in the Green Room have always been there. My version minimizes them a bit, but they have always been there. Being the location of a power weapon (shotgun), camping is going to happen no matter what. That little camping spot, in this area, is meant to provide some cover for players that drop down in this room. If gives them a little cover to catch their breath. I must admit. I've considered opening this room up to the new Sword Bridge, but I'm worried it would become too many paths if I do. The Gravity Lift tower is already opened up enough, as it is. There needs to be a little bit of danger on this map.

As for the lift no longer shooting players out of it; that's a good thing. In past installments, that "push" got players killed way too easily. It completely exposed them to the other towers. Adding it to this version would only hurt it. I also believe that the original "push" was not intended to play out the way it did. The top of the lift was already a death trap from grenades to sniper fire from the other (higher) towers. There was literally no advantage to taking the lift outside of escaping gun fire from below. That "push" often resulted in player's death, when they reached the top, instead of their escape. This version of the map will never see that "push" return. As for having to jump into the lift, that has also always been a part of the map, for the most part. I considered removing that jump, but decided against it. Without the required jump, players would end up accidentally walk into it. And that's not a good thing.

What do you mean by "clustered structure on top of the BR tower"? I'm assuming you're talking about the top of the Red Tower. That "cluster" is cover for the top of the tower. ViciousSubtlety shaped it to match the original.

The only differences between those maps, that I remember, was the pocket on Blue's original bridge. Everything else was piratically identical. Granted, The bottom of the Sniper Tower was a bit bigger in Blackout, but that's really it.

"Confusing elements"?? What elements would that be, exactly? The Pocket I added to Blue Bridge? That's the only thing, similar to Blackout, that I added. But as I've already stated, this version is not meant to play like either of those versions. Yes, there are similarities in layout. But the additional paths gives this map it's own feel and flow with a since of familiarity to it.

As for the scale, it feels good. The additional paths feel good as well. The only complaint I've received, so far, is the addition of the teleporter. But that was because the player got flanked by the player he was trying to camp. Which is why I added it. There's no reason, that I've found, for "ridiculously up-scaling" this map for Halo 5. Just because there is endless sprint and new clamber options, that no reason to upscale a map. Players still play on it as they use to. Most of the time, they seem to forget about the endless sprint option. Possibly because it's a death trap with all of the turns on the map. In play test, Sprint was only used on the bridges and in the top center. So up-scaling has not been needed. I had one player suggest up-scaling the map for vehicles. Although that would be interesting, it's not how the map was designed. Likewise, the map was not designed for endless sprint and clamber. But it plays well with those options; when available.

Sounds cool. But please clarify what you mean by "S1 to S2" I'm not "hip" on the MLG names for Lockout. Are you talking about Sniper, Shotgun, or Sword?
This version of the map is still VERY YOUNG. I plan on making a large number of changes. Mostly to set it apart from ViciousSubtlety's version. But also because the Lightmap is already maxed out and the object count is almost maxed out as well. I'm still learning what objects we have available in H5's Forge. It's menu system is not helping matters at all. I have no doubt that I'll end up replacing most, if not all, of the objects on the current version. But up-scaling is not planned. Additional and logical clamber options are though.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

I contacted VisciousSubtlet, a while ago on Xbox Live, about the changes I mad, and did not receive a response. I also did not know he had a thread on Forge Hub until after I tried to post. Which took FOREVER to finally go though. I made every effort, from the start, to inform everyone that I did not make the original creation. From providing credit in the Map's description and providing it in the video, to mentioning it at the start of this post. If he has a problem with it, then he simply needs to say the word and I'll delete this thread. No ill will was intended. But I agree with you on this matter.

 

No. Wish they had though. Would have saved me some trouble. I'll be lying if I said that video wasn't encouragement for the changes I made. I saw the video two weeks ago and it reminded me of the changes I originally want to make to Lockout/Blackout. Our visions are surprisingly similar. Flat out dead on, to be honest. But I don't agree with him on everything he says. Talented as he may be, I never felt comfortable with placing the Teleporter on a lip of Shotgun tower. I tried that on Blackout and it just did not work. Players would either get shot down or grenaded before they would reach it. Other players had no clue it was there and suddenly found themselves in a new location. I ended up removing that lip entirely, by placing a simple block over the hole and sitting the teleporter on it. Players loved it. New players instantly knew where it was and not surprised when they teleported.

Likewise, I never placed the teleporter exit at the top of Red base (BR tower). To me, it would make the teleporter pointless as there was zero cover for players. It would also place the player in direct conflict with one of his attackers. To me, that doesn't seem fair to the attacker who is already in a exposed area and not expecting the flank. I've always placed the exit teleporter in the corner of the Triple Room (above Sword). It's a exposed room, while providing direct cover from the main towers. But it also gives the attackers time to react to the teleporting player. Provided they pay attention to their radar.

As for the three paths, those ideas are nothing new. For gameplay, they seem like "no brainers". At least to me. If you are to limit dead ends and open up the map, it's really the only proper changes you can make. But as MultiLockOn pointed out, these changes were never possible, simply because their ends were always closed off. MultiLockOn's video refreshed me of the changes I wanted to make to the map. So I started out remaking Blackout in Halo5. While I was forging it, I was informed of ViciousSubtlety's remake. So, to save time, I used his as a base. Over time, everything he has made, will be replaced. I'm not happy about the already maxed out object and light count. I also feel some areas could be adjusted for Halo5.
Back in the day, I attempted to open up Blackout by having the new Blue bridge lead to the front of the shotgun tower. Although it worked, it didn't help players stuck in that area. To use it, they would have to expose themselves to their campers. It also resulted in players, at the sniper tower, sneak up to them from the front. Something that players rarely expected. The teleporter helped, but it made their movements too predictable. Likewise, I had a identical bridge leading to this area from Red Mid. In the end, both of these paths seemed redundant. I also added a bridge from Sniper Tower to Sword. Except I had it ramp up to the top floor of Sniper tower. I had left it exposed, but it became too much of a weapon grab path. So I tried moving this path to go to the mini bridge between Sniper tower and bottom mid. This worked surprisingly well. But, to me, the path felt forced. It worked, but it just didn't feel like it fit the map at all. If that makes any sense. I ended up having the path wrap around the back of Sniper tower and lead to the bottom of it's ramp. This worked as well. It also felt like it fit the map. Not as well as it would have, had it cut directly into the room, but well enough.

Thanks for reminding me of MultiLockOn's video. I'll notify him of this map. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. And he does deserve a shoutout for inspiring me to make the changes. I'll continue to add and change my version. So stay tuned.

 

Ah. Gotcha. I originally thought so, but wasn't sure.
Seeing as how it applies to this version as well (for the most part), it's all good.

=====UPDATE=====
I've adding new photos to this post.

I'm replacing some of the walls with blocks and ramps with stairs. There are also two trim blocks where there should only be one. I've already started making those changes. I believe it's a glitch, but my light-map count has increased when it should have decreased a great deal. I'll continue to improve this map. I did attempt to replace the weapon pads with their weapon counterparts (set to Normal Physics). However, the frag grenade would barely nudge it, and no version of the cores (or explosives) would send the weapon flying. Because of this, I feel it's best to keep it tied to the weapon pad.

It needs to be noted that I'll be renaming this map to Lockdown. I've already done so, but it doesn't seem to be sticking when you view it in the menu. Because of this issue, I map be re-saving the map under the new name soon. If you like this map, then you'll have to re-bookmark it. Sorry.

 

I've made some cosmetic changes to the map since my last post. Nothing overly worth mentioning. The teleporter exit has been moved over some. It has also been updated to look like a actual fireplace. Which will cause minor shield damage to anyone that uses it. The fire radius is pretty wide on it's sides. This results in teleporter campers having a difficult time...well camping.

I'm considering enlarging the entire map and changing up the blocks to be more appealing. But before I do, I would like to have some feedback on the current build. Does the map feel too small? What type of aesthetics/changes would you like to see? This map is mostly for you guys/gals. So feedback would greatly help. Otherwise I'll call it done and move on.