The reason is that it doesn't appeal to me, unless it really stands out. Since you bring up Luxor Station: Space stations will be the most used themes on that canvas, therefore they it won't have any effect on how well people interpret it. In fact, it will become repetitive very quickly. You guys can have your standards of what makes a good map, and I'll have mine. This is just like the bullshit that revolved around the "Quake maps". I'll make what I enjoy making and playing, and my opinion of maps will be based on the same principles they always have been. It's blanket statements like that, that dig you the holes you try to get out of later, Schnitzel. Interesting structure and geometry is beatuiful to me, so I guess I'm a design snob. You can find it to be whatever you want. I've always made sure my maps have visual appeal, but I have no interest in theme or narrative. I would definitely argue that how a map looks is more subjective than how it plays. I have no problem with sharing honest opinions, but saying things like "Anybody who thinks differently than me is _____" is never constructive to the conversation. It turns discussion into flame wars and ego stroking.
Actually, I didn't bring up my map, or have I tried to pass it off as an aesthetic masterpiece, so nice attempt at throwing shade mate. Here, I'll be blunt. You are a design snob. You also are a bit of a prick, as you go about talking down to people when assessing a map and relaying your thoughts. You act like you're some sort of authority on designing maps, and that everyone (outside of the select few you consider peers) are beneath you in that regard. This is exemplifie by your often made statement to forgers of "impress me" and "you've yet to impress me", as that shows you think of yourself as better than them. And yes, your hardline stance against aesthetics is a defensive one to protect your ego, because while you are capable of making interesting designs, you're insecure about your ability to bring some sort of aesthetic quality to them. You have a lot of nerve to talk about ego stroking mate, given the way you talk to people and act like you're better than them. Fact of the matter is, we had a hardline stance against aesthetics in previous forge editions because the compromised map performance, not design integrity. Now that we have a tool that is capable of both, there is ZERO reason for a map not to incorporate some level of aesthetic appeal. Now before anyone busts my balls here for swinging at this kid, do note that he got upset about an opinionated blanket statement and threw the first punch by bringing my map into a discussion out of context. That was a personal attack, and my response was entirely justified.
I don't think they're mutually exclusive, but i did say that it's fair to ignore it and have your preferenes. For another example, Downrush is a popular Halo 1.5 map and I wouldn't say it has any particular theme, although it can very easily be adopted to one. All I'm personally saying is that I would like to see the way people build maps grow with the editor, for the sake of the editor itself.
Just a sneak peek at a map salty and I have been co-forging. A glimpse into the future of map design as we know it.
Is there any scripting magic or trait zone science that would allow me to exclude certain parts of my map from being affected by fog, snow, rain, etc? Also, how are you guys getting around the lack of names for the 9000+ colors we get to choose from? So, far I've just been counting the number of left/right clicks from a destinguishable color... But the distinguishable color has to have a distinguishable color to it's left or right to be distinguishable in the first place. :'( It hurts my head. Help me my fellow forgers, you're my only hope.
Working on a doubles map for the contest. The theme will be that UNSC has uncovered a new forerunner structure and have set up a temporary base around it to study it.
You're right, you didn't mention your map, but you referred to our conversation on your map, so I made the connection. I never said that you claimed it was an aesthetic masterpiece, and there was no shade thrown. I don't talk down to anybody. You can be blunt, but when I am blunt, it means I am talking down to you? I said that it was a bit small, and that the doorways were too narrow for 4v4. I don't see how that's anything more than me sharing my opinion with constructive intent. And while my words were just disregarded (which is fine), those exact words were listened to when coming from Bunniesz and his friends. I don't act like anyone's beneath me. I like to help people with their maps, and I value anyone's opinions, even if I don't share them. I was reiterating the phrasing that Goat was using. Calling any map that doesn't have a theme garbage, is better than explaining what impresses me? I'm perfectly fine with how my maps look, so there's no insecurity in that department. They're clean, organized, have depth perception, and orientation cues, and that all I really focus on. As I said: The reason is that it doesn't interest me. There doesn't need to be any other reason. I wasn't upset, I just wanted to point out how the things you say that put you these situations with people. You say that you make efforts to better yourself in that regard, and I've seen no progress in the five years I've known you. It wasn't a personal attack. It was an example using your map.
Do what you want and not care about what anybody thinks of your map. Gameplay, aesthetics, gameplay, aesthetics. It comes down to personal preference. Just because you advocate one doesn't mean you should stereotype the other. More importantly, just because one prioritizes gameplay above everything else doesn't mean that person doesn't think about anything else when making the map, and vice-versa. You're out of your mind if you think anyone who forges competitive/MLG maps ignored other aspects of mapmaking. Aesthetics benefit orientaton. You don't have to like others' maps and they don't have to like yours (unless of course, you're a superficial piece of garbage). Don't treat forge like a competition.
Ben makes a booming return, ladies and gentleman. Speaking of ladies: We should get Res in here if she still forges.
Well colored me surprised. I'll be overjoyed if Res actually is capable of forging maps worthy or praise finally, rather than getting praise by virtue of being a girl like before.
Unless of course you're entering a Forge competition.. and i'm on the judge panel.. and i'm going to dock points if you submit a pile of blocks and expect it to win $500 dollars over a map that plays just as well and looks twice as good. Those are absolutely my preferences, because I'm frankly tired of reading posts about people wanting Forge cut because we're just playing around with LEGO. Halo 5 is the biggest Forge yet, so there's really no excuse. We're putting time, talent and real collaborative skills towards these creations and it's far too easy for people outside the Forge community (and not necessarily just them) to dismiss all of that solely based on how the end result looks. Perhaps that sounds hypocritical, but I wouldn't say I'd be dismissing a map based on its looks. A good design is always the most important aspect, and it's fine if you are building for yourself and not them. Nevertheless, each iteration has been a chance to grow the Forge community and showcase what it is capable of. We only got this far because we kept pushing it further, so why stay rooted in old ways? I mean, there were literally people saying that Forge should be cut in favor of more time spent on developer maps. What's the guarantee that a trickle of maps (which will soon cost money) will be better than a near endless stream of custom content, especially if that custom content has support from the same developers?
I didn't see this to be a discussion on the competition, as much as a discussion of H5 forge in general. The situation you refer to doesn't exist, though. What two maps play 'just as well' as each other? I really hope a well designed map doesn't lose to a good looking map.
Once again, a "well designed map" is not mutually exclusive from "a good looking map" anymore. That's literally the whole point I'm making. A job offered to two people with the same skillset is going to the one with the degree, stronger portfolio, better work ethic, etc. If the map that doesn't look as good plays better than the one that does, it will be chosen instead. Don't misconstrue this message as "aesthetics > gameplay"
See, funny thing is, when you've got multiple maps of high caliber design, it becomes a little difficult to say "oh, map X is clearly better than map Y", because judging of maps that are past a certain threshold of quality becomes highly subjective. Rather, at that point, it becomes "we favored map X because of these traits it showcased, while map Y lacked them". This same methodology translates over to two maps of solid design being judged, but one being a block out and the other being aesthetically built. As both maps are past the quality threshold, the blocked out map has few points it could win over because it lacks aesthetic atmosphere. Again, no one is pushing aesthetics over gameplay. No one is supporting compromising the integrity of a design in the name of aesthetic content. And most importantly, no, a map will win over another map simply because it's "pretty". A map will win because it plays well, and if it's "pretty", that's just more points in its court. The foremost criteria is the quality of gameplay the map offers.
@people yeah i finally got on damnation to look at original color scheme finally, because I was going off memory more than anything and have more of an idea of what I want. A lot of the brightness is from there being a couple max lights on there as well. I do have an idea of how to go about what is being suggested. I'll worry about it more when I have a theme for another map. This game really screwed me over because I have a bunch of designs that needed stone for their themes because the were dungeons and temples.
This. And this really only matters if you're entering a map to a competition or for matchmaking because those maps are representing Forge, and by extension the joy that is the custom content community - to the greater Halo community. That Forge map might be the inspiration someone needs to start Forging or take up level design. I've been that person and would love to be that person for the next one.