there are no rules? i completely disagree, the rules are the gameplay mechanics and we have to build around them, anything that goes counter to the mechanics instead of working with them is something to avoid doing, these things have accumulated and what forgers call as rules because most of the time when people do these things they are very obstructive to the game making things a chore to play. i don't think everything about maps is subjective which would make all maps good and bad depending on your opinion. a map has to work well within the confines of the mechanics, any map that doesn't do this is a bad map period. if you design a halo map around mechanics, such as say wall running its going to end up playing like a complete mess because you can't utilize certain aspects that are there in order for the map to work. of course there are no strict design styles that work and don't work, there are multiple different styles and combinations of those styles that work and we all have our own preferences on which we prefer over others but in the end they are all just as good as each other. any map that works with halos gameplay mechanics effectively is a good map. i also think multi got the wrong end of the learning a map in the first play through thing. this usually means that people should be able to orient themselves and learn the layout within the first, or first few play throughs. this doesn't mean that every little intricacy has to be exposed in such a short amount of time, just that people know where they are going when navigating the map. all the intricacies can still take ages to learn. personally i don't see how designing maps is art, art is about expression and there is any sort of expression in maps, what we're doing is designing a battle ground for players to play on. a creative mind usually found in artistic people definitely helps for coming up with different designs but i still wouldn't say you're expressing some sort of emotion or action.
I think you're talking the no rules thing way too literally. Your wall running example is completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about in the video and I think you know that. These "styles"as you put it are what forgers need to open their mind to, I think. That's all. I'm not telling you that you can place 10 rocket launchers on a map because there are no rules, and just to make it work. I know that's stupid, just look at the video wholistically. And we are in agreement on the first play through intricacy thing, so I don't know what you're trying to argue there. And if you don't see map design as an art then we disagree on this at a very fundamental level and there's nothing I can say that would convince you other wise. It's just the way my brain looks at things I suppose.
I must say Multi, that I love the videos man. Keep 'em up. They are now favorited in my Youtube collection foreverz. I think in comparison to all of the other "let me show you how to forge" video, I personally like yours best. There have been some recent "how to forge" videos that make me facepalm. So gratz and keep it up man! Enjoy having my first post!
Believe me I know what you're talking about lol. But thanks AZN, means a lot coming from you! I'm always open to a dual commentary if you've got a good speaking voice
You clearly do not see the whole picture; something that is wrong with many newer forgers. Creating maps is incredibly artistic. In fact, if you don't believe so, why even forge? It is about more than just placing blocks you can walk on. It is about creating different textures, themes, backstory, and overall you're selling more than just a map. You are delivering an experience for people. Honestly, even if you do not feel like all that is necessary (which you should if you value yourself a map maker) you still cannot deny that creating fluid path connections in your map is artistic. Art is so much more than "expressing yourself."
i forge because i enjoy problem solving, same reason why i do woodworking and programming. forge is effectively and endless stream of problems and solutions, solving those problems is what i enjoy doing.
Forging is an art! You're right, that a forged map needs to still recognize the confines of the game mechanics. It would be silly to forge a map under the illusion that players can do something when they actually cannot (like making a map that would require players to fly, when they can't). However a good forger knows how to not only work within these "confines" and view them instead as tools. The main point Multi-Lock-On is trying to make is that there are very over-repeated "Rules" of mapmaking that many take as law. This then produces a limited variety of maps, which I agree with completely. You can recognize these maps right away as you scroll down forgehub, and right away when you play them. They contain very similar overall design, and are really boring. This actually turned me away from Forgehub when Reach/4 got big, because the maps I make do not always fit these set rules/style, so I feared my maps wouldn't be popular or liked. I still forged though.
Just watched the videos and I liked them (also a huge fan of damnation). Never really dug into why I liked it but it was just so different. Sadly I've never been able to make a map i'm happy with that replicates that style. One issue I had with the second video was when you started talking about your map. You had very specific examples of what you decided to do with nice graphics but I never really understood what the direct comparison was to your map because I hadn't played it and don't know your map as well as you do. The fly-by in the background didn't really point out the exact positions/setups you were talking about. A possible solution if something in the future comes up might be to take a screenshot of the geometry your talking about instead of the panning video. Like others have said, these might be a little over the head of a completely new forger but a lot of great ideas that I will definitely keep in mind for Halo 5.
The next two episodes have been done for a few weeks but.. I've been told by someone that none of the "upper tier" forgers here take them seriously and that they're kind of a joke. Kinda lost passion for sharing the videos honestly.
Don't listen to any of that nonsense. First of all, I literally haven't heard a single person say anything like that. Second, who the hell cares. If everyone agreed with your videos then they'd probably be pretty mediocre (kind of like a map that follows all the 'rules'). We need more info like this out there for forgers. I really hope you release them.
I agree with Chunk. If you already have the videos done then just release them. Clearly there are people who want to see them.
I mean I didn't want them to be considered entry level information lol but thanks man, I appreciate it
if anyone refers to themselves as an upper tier forger they're a shitty forger with a big ego, not worth listening to from my experience. the good forgers offer their feedback and knowledge without prefacing it with experience first. the videos are good, i would say slightly over whelming for people without some prior experience but very useful, get the muploaded already if they're done.
I don't consider them to be entry information. That's why I like them. Most people cover the basics and never really go in depth. These seem to tackle the more complex side of map design, which is what I've been looking for.
Really well-done videos. I was pleasantly surprised at how natural articulating your thoughts came to you. I think we have a lot in common, in terms of map design philosophy as well. BUT, I do think you were a bit harsh on Lockout. You were referencing competitive level of play for your opinion on controlling Lockout, so I'm going to have to bring up Lockout Ball. It completely changed the way the map played, and truly complimented the four-branch design. Snipe and BR. May have still been positions of power, but Lift and Library were safer and arguably more important as that was where Ball would set up. And same for Construct Hill. It forced players to have top to bottom interaction, and made full use of the map. EDIT: Who are these upper-tier forgers this scrub is referring to? What you're talking about is something any passionate map maker that seeks a different perspective would be interested to hear. Release the videos!