HCS: Season 2 Discussion

Who cares about HCS in H5, we'll have GP and Forge! Maybe we can finally have a proper continually changing roster of maps too! Cycling a few out and new ones in with each season.

You should make an H5 GP thread to get ideas for what we want.

I'll probably be having more free time than I had expected... Might not be gone for good.

 

I heard that some people were planning to make the perfect gametypes as soon as the game comes out.

 

GPCS. The brand spanking newest and sexiest eSport.

Not too long to wait imo, im pretty certain H5 will be out in September to avoid COD/be the summer/late summer blockbuster on its own, plus the H5 beta was certainly not 12 months away from being finished

 

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, as I see nothing disparaging towards forgers in there at all. I see people questioning why didn't begin testing forge maps earlier. I see Diesel accusing of choosing maps based upon looks rather than gameplay.
The closest thing I see to forgers being blamed is Che Chou trying to deflect some responsibility onto the Cartographers, which is pretty shitty since dictated the timing of everything.

I don't know why I'm arguing the point though. The fact is that we have maps that were chosen for Season 2 very shortly before the season was set to begin, and those maps were not ready for competitive play. I personally don't care who anyone tries to blame for it. I only care that this problem does not repeat itself in the future. There's plenty of blame to spread around if that's what we're trying to do, but it would be pretty stupid to lay all of the blame on one person or one group of people.

There should've been more good forge maps for to choose from (in any previous Halo game, it wouldn't have been unreasonable for to expect to many maps that were ready for competitive play). There should've been a longer, more intensive testing period (this would have made some of the subsequent issues apparent pretty quickly). There WERE maps that were much more refined and ready for competitive play that should've been chosen (I would've probably gone with Dispute and Orion).

Who cares if forgers get blamed. Anyone with a ounce of intelligence can recognize that this failure doesn't fall solely on the shoulders of forgers.

 

Do you agree with my point that this could be the last chance for forge to be represented at all by 343, with maps getting into S2/H5 being very unlikely imo

 

This is all very true and you make some valid points here, but we are talking about the run of the mill "MLG-ermehgurds" kid here, and they're not exactly the brightest around, and they're certainly not anything close to being rationally minded.

Shamefully though, it's irrelevant at this point. Maybe we'll be able to see Eden and Epic get polished off and put back in, maybe we won't. Regardless, after Season 2, forge maps are pretty much out of HCS for the next couple of years so it's useless to care what that side of the Halo community thinks. We had our chance to shine, 343i dropped the ball. I still think it's gonna reflect badly back on us, but as I said, its irrelevant at this point going forward.

 

I hate the "esports" drive of Halo. Halo has always been a community game, and to see 343 forcing/dictating what gets played, and the competitive community doing anything possible (and the expense of their own game) to try accomodate the much coveted "casual viewer" makes me sad. Removing the sub community aspect of Halo has been one of 343's biggest crimes. Halo should always have went the way of Smash as this community/grass roots game, especially considering we have the games on 1 disc. But the cool thing that people want in Halo is to "esports" and get dem big prize pools and to keep thinking they can compete with csgo/lol.

 

Which is just sad, really... I blame MLG to be honest. They started as a Halo e-sports league and had a grandiose vision, but were overly reliant on venture capital because the costs associated with running Halo events are simply too high for it to be profitable with the payouts MLG desired. MLG learned this and when more viable games caught on in the US scene, they ditched Halo. The run of the mill competitive kid doesn't understand the financial side of things though, they just want the return of the big payouts. To them, big payouts will equate to increased popularity, but that's simply not the case.

The hayday of Halo as an e-sport is long gone, but the comp scene believes that if enough money is pumped into it, Halo e-sports can be revived to its former glory. This has lead the community to sell themselves out to whoever will throwdown the most money. The Halo comp community is the equivalent of a crack-***** desperate to get her next fix.

Had MLG never had such a grandiose vision that provided irrationally exuberant payouts, we would not be having this problem right now. We would possibly be a tighter nit community that cares more about the game than the money and prestige. Sadly though, that's just the way it is.

 

Yes. Seems very possible that it will be all dev maps after this.

 

Season 1 proved that HCS can survive off as small of a map pool as 3 maps... Right off the bat, H5 will have at least 4 viable dev maps. If there are 5 viable dev maps, forge maps are pretty much dead in the water.

 

Yeah, and I'm fine with that as long as there are 5 decent dev maps. I don't think we should be adding forge maps to HCS unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

Surely its a good promotion of forge, a tool in the game, just like what HCS is. 1 forge map out of 11 is harmless.

I dont remember Onslaught killing MLG.

 

For what it's worth, I also don't agree with adding redundant weapons or new gametypes just for the sake of variety, even though they wouldn't kill competitive Halo either. I tend to favor a minimalistic approach most of the time.

Forcing a forge map into the HCS is not going to kill HCS. I just don't think it's necessary.

Of course, this is all hypothetical. If there's an amazing forge map that's superior to any of the dev maps, then I'd be in favor of adding it. If the dev maps prove to be not well suited for competitive play, then I'd be in favor of adding forge maps. If the forge turns out to be a far better tool than we've had in other Halo games, I may be more inclined to support the inclusion of a forge map even if the dev maps are good.

I'm just saying, adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff doesn't make sense to me.

 

Metal maps are ok, just as long as you can be shot out of the sprint so its not too easy to get away.

Seriously, though, I agree with the minimalistic approach.

 

But we arent addING stuff for the sake of it, theres very clear faults with H2A

This was my feedback on the HCS settings before the game came out, some obvious flaws are still around

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2lug87/my_esports_settings_feedback_after_esl/

 

Yes, I agree that it's a necessity in H2A.

 

I'm on the same page.
I hope 343 will move away from DLC and instead focus on improving forge. DLC is basically useless anyway. Only a small portion of the community ends up purchasing it, which means it's almost never used in matchmaking. It's a failed experiment.

Forge is a more feasible means of providing new content. Everyone who owns the game has access to its content, free of charge. The only thing holding it back is the limitations that are currently built into the forging system.

 

It's honestly just a matter of outfitting the engine to work with improvements to forge. If Far Cry 2 on the 360 can support terrain editing, lighting, AI, water placement, and a HUGE amount items on screen at any given moment, there's no reason 343 couldn't/shouldn't outfit forge to be capable of the same.

It's probably all a big conspiracy.. they won't improve forge so they can keep selling DLC

 

This...and the fact 343 has proven there ability for building games is not up to par with other companies. Their interfaces are terrible. They have to over-complicate everything.