Forge Textures

Just to let you know that is the only way I judge maps. I honestly don't care what the **** a map looks like. I just want to know is it fun and can I abuse it. If both then I am very happy. Then I can troll people on it.

 

< implying it's only possible to make mound/room based maps out of metal even though the pieces fill the same rolls as stone pieces

< implying that all of mine and Givens maps are mounds/ room based

< implying that we don't care for design and only for looks?

I don't know if I misinterpreted your post but it came off kinda insulting :/

 

Not trying to be insulting and not saying all you care about is looks. But yes all your maps are either mounds or room based. That is not an insult that is just what I have noticed about all metal maps. I am not saying they are bad maps. The thing stone has going for is thinner pieces that allow you to do more. It is honestly a shame there is not a decent sized thin black piece that doesn't have extra baggage on it.

That is my opinion. I was not trying to be insulting. If i was insulting you I would have called one of you out. I was more or less just sharing my thoughts on all metal maps. I apologize for coming off that way.

 

Just curious... I just looked through all my H2A maps posted. There's 6, plus Alt Drei which is finished but has too many objects, and Trinity, the one I posted a preview for. So 8 maps.

Galley of Kings has 1 room at the back that's a minor part of the map, the rest of it is fairly open.. And the other 7 maps don't have any rooms.

In fact, I looked through my Halo 3 maps as well. Theres 9 of them posted here. And none of them have rooms. I tell Given on a daily basis that I don't like room based maps lol. I don't really see what you're talking about honestly.

 

Oh man... this post... Alright kids, time for school.

"Maps composed entirely out of concrete blocks aren't considered acceptable by most of the population of forgers I have encountered."
Really? Because most of the maps I see are primarily concrete, and most people are perfectly ok with that. That is a LOT of maps, too.

"Most people who have seen metal maps outside of forgehub on places such as Mr. Pokephile's Youtube channel, have nothing but good things to say."
While I will say that all metal maps definitely look cool, sourcing Pokephile and his fans as proof of a good design is a terrible mistake. He and many of his viewers don't know much about actual map design, which should always come first when building a map. They're more concerned with how pretty a map is.

"Some claim that all metal maps are also boring to look at, or hard to navigate through. Some have even gone on to say their depth perception is thrown out of whack."
Well, some people "claim" that because it's true. Let me counter your "facts" with some of my own. If a large surface is entirely one color, it's automatically going to be boring to look at if nothing else exists to grab peoples attention. If an entire map is made of one color, the same rule applies. There will also be an issue with depth perception and readability throughout the map. Sure, one could argue that they can still technically see the edges of the structures, but it requires more effort and is more difficult to do while trying to play the game competitively. How can this be fixed? Use stronger contrast. Player models in this game are relatively dark compared to the forge pieces at our disposal, so it's easy to lose track of an enemy player that is blending in with darker pieces or hiding in the shadows. It's no secret that two dark shades next to each other is harder to distinguish than a dark and a light color side by side, especially when shadows are involved. Why would this be any different in the game? Using both colors not only helps players read the space better, but it helps target acquisition.

"Plain and simple, concrete only has 1 color. A light tan.
Metal has 3 colors. A light grey, a dark grey, and brown. (There is no black.)"
Wow... this is just baffling. Lets pretend, for a moment, that this is true and metal pieces are slightly different in shade. Why would it matter if there is a small difference to them? Do you honestly think someone in the middle of a gunfight or maneuvering through the map is going to be focused on the slight variation of how dark the metal pieces are from each other? For all intents and purposes, the metal pieces are all the same shade. Not only are they all too similar to notice, but as soon as any shadows are involved all metal pieces become very dark, thus hurting the readability of the map. Once again, using a mix of both concrete and metal in strategic places can alleviate this problem.

"That would be light grey as the flooring, dark grey for inclines, and brown for walls. It is a clean, aesthetically pleasing, detailed way to create maps while maintaining contrast."
Ok, again with the "different colors" for the metal pieces. There is no discernible difference during gameplay, stop fooling yourself. While metal structures are definitely cool and pretty to look at, the aesthetics of a map shouldn't be the driving force behind any particular design, especially when core gametypes are involved. Metal on metal doesn't create contrast. The literal definition for contrast makes note of light and dark, not dark and darker. If the option for better contrast is readily available, why not use it? To express "creativity?"

"It is arguable that only using metal pieces hurts creativity. This is absolutely not true. It requires you to use pieces in a different manner than what they are intended for, expanding your horizons, and drawing more creativity out of you. There is not much creativity in square blocks, especially for newer forgers who rely entirely too much on coordinate editing and magnets."
Ok, first of all, coordinates and magnets are great tools, especially when trying to make something uniform and/or symmetrical. Ignoring a tool you've been given doesn't show more skill or creativity, it just makes you look ignorant and pretentious. The same thing can be said of piece usage. Why not use every piece at your disposal? If it is the best fit for a particular section of your map, why ignore it? Sure, aesthetics play an important role in map design, and piece usage factors into that; but it shouldn't limit the potential of the map itself. The creativity in forge should be more about the actual design of the map, not the fashion in which it was constructed. That may have been important in Halo 3, where aesthetics were more important and the act of building a map was difficult, but times have changed. The skill gap no longer exists in actually creating the map, but in how the map was designed and how well it plays. Obviously a single square block isn't creative on its own, but I can think of may things that can be done with blocks that can't be done with metal pieces. Limiting yourself and what you can build simply for aesthetics doesn't do you much good if the map plays poorly

"Notice that every Halo game with forge so far has had simple colors and textures. Not only have custom maps always been simply colored and textured, but the player favorite map (Lockout) is an all metal map that has even less contrast than any forged metal map to date."
You know Lockout still had contrast, right? The interiors were lit differently than the exterior parts of the map, letting players clearly see the boundaries of different sections. Is the maps color palette monotonous? Yes. Is that an excuse now, ten years later? No. Same thing applies to Sandbox. There was no option for contrast on that canvas and, honestly, that hurt it at times. Reach had some of the same problems. It was easy to make a map that was ugly and all grey, but there were option to add contrast when needed. This was expanded on in Halo 4. The three original canvases in Halo 4 had a mix of dark and light pieces, which could be used to create beautiful maps that played well and relayed needed information to players about the structure of the map and position of enemy players. The maps were readable. Forge Island didn't have the same dark pieces, and many of the textures became even cleaner than before. This could easily lead to poor depth perception, especially in shadowed areas. How was this solved? People opted to use rocks in key locations to help with contrast and let players easily see where one angle would end and where another would begin. Contrast and depth perception have always been important factors in map design. You can ask any developer or map designer.

The metal pieces are cool. We can all agree on that. Metal pieces can be used to create some very original and creative structures. Much of the wow factor comes from the difficulty in creating such structures. However, limiting yourself to only use metal pieces doesn't make you better than any other forger out there. It just means you're limiting yourself for the sake of aesthetics. Aesthetics should form around a design and work in tandem with the layout of the map to help players orient themselves, see other players, and make callouts. If your aesthetics are directly countering gameplay, then you've gone too far. The way a map looked and how it was built used to be very important back in Halo 3, but times have changed. The community has changed. The games have changed. Forge has changed. Just because you made a name for yourself back then doesn't mean that name carries any weight now. Forgers now have different ways of doing things and different values. We value design and gameplay. We value player orientation. We value target acquisition. We value map readablility. We value intuitive design. Aesthetics come second to gameplay, and should always help gameplay, not hurt it. If you guys want to continue limiting yourselves just so you can say you built a map under said limitations, that's fine. But don't come in here preaching about how your ways are superior, because they're not. Learn how to design a map around gameplay, and leave your god complex at home.

Class dismissed.

 

What limits am I accepting again? I'm just curious because I'm not certain you know anything about my forging style.

For what I said about you guys "shitting on concrete," I was referring to your bias in your original post:

- "Metal has 3 textures and makes great contrast on its own. Concrete only has one."
- "Using all metal draws the creativity out of you" (and what about concrete pieces, none at all?)

Concrete not only has color stripes (which can be done very poorly or done very well), but there's at least one more color of concrete in the platform large. This is just off the top of my head for now. And in regards to contrast, it is as much of a matter of aesthetics as it is of orientation. I'm not saying platform larges look great with block pieces, but ramps look average at best with other metal pieces.

I looked screenshots of Oasis, I agree that orientation is a nonissue. But my point about that map is that it wouldn't look aesthetically pleasing without the bushes, the windows, or the concrete treads/walls you have along the map. The map looks beautiful for H2A. My only problem with it is the map's actual design.

Pure-metal vs Pure-concrete? Pure-metal looks better, pure-concrete will commonly play better though. Anyone who uses concrete will depend on other textures (not just metal) if they want the map too look good; like anyone who uses metal will have to use more versatile objects if they want to execute a solid design.

I already said this, but it is about the END PRODUCT. Does it look good? Does it play well? Does it perform well in regards to framerate?

I understand our priorities aren't the same though. Mine are set at:

1. Clean Forging
2. Design
3. Aesthetics

So yeah, I do gladly accept my limits.

 

all three of those are mounds.

I didn't count gallery because it was not all metal. If I recall there are some blocks and some other textured object.

I know that I make it sound like there are only two maps you can make. I mean style of maps. There are tons of different things you can do with both. My definition of what is in a category of maps is just broader.

We are not talking about Halo 3 maps. I see you guys are honestly just looking to argue because you are salty about something. Now either address it head on or let it go. I mean you guys got squally to post he doesn't post here.

BTW if you think I don't like your maps that is not the case what so ever. I like metal maps. I like block maps. I like grass maps. I like maps. I don't give a **** how they look. Only thing I don't agree with that is you are more creative when you restrict yourself with objects. Which shouldn't matter because technically this is art and it is based on opinion.

I am done.

 

XD

 

Squally. This thread was about wrapped up before you came in here and regurgitated the same points that everyone has addressed only in a condescending manner.


Really? Because most of the maps I see are primarily concrete, and most people are perfectly ok with that. That is a LOT of maps, too.

No he said ENTIRELY out of concrete. No one in their right mind would consider a map completely out of blocks to be skillfully forged. Yes, there is skill in forging regardless of automatic merging. You're nitpicking.

While I will say that all metal maps definitely look cool, sourcing Pokephile and his fans as proof of a good design is a terrible mistake. He and many of his viewers don't know much about actual map design, which should always come first when building a map. They're more concerned with how pretty a map is.

We're not arguing how well a map plays, because any single map made of stone can also be made of metal. Metal has NO EFFECT ON A MAPS DESIGN. Pokephile and his audiences don't need to know anything about map design, they just need to look at a map and see if they like what they see. And when he featured Given's map and my own, half the comments read 'Wow, such metal! So wow!' and that's all we need to know. Even the average joe can see the difference.

Ok, again with the "different colors" for the metal pieces. There is no discernible difference during gameplay, stop fooling yourself. While metal structures are definitely cool and pretty to look at, the aesthetics of a map shouldn't be the driving force behind any particular design, especially when core gametypes are involved. Metal on metal doesn't create contrast. The literal definition for contrast makes note of light and dark, not dark and darker. If the option for better contrast is readily available, why not use it? To express "creativity?"

Go back and read the thread. The only reason this is even brought up is because people say that metal has no contrast, when in reality using metal as opposed to stone has 3 different shades in stark contrast to 1. We don't even think the contrast is a big deal, it's more or less irrelevant, he just put it there to shut people up. Yes, you want contrast with stone and metal. But we think stone looks lazy and poorly forged, so if contrast is even an issue we still have natural terrain, rocks, trees to use. Again, we practice metal exclusivity because it looks nice and it shows skill. Nothing more.

Ok, first of all, coordinates and magnets are great tools, especially when trying to make something uniform and/or symmetrical. Ignoring a tool you've been given doesn't show more skill or creativity, it just makes you look ignorant and pretentious. The same thing can be said of piece usage. Why not use every piece at your disposal? If it is the best fit for a particular section of your map, why ignore it? Sure, aesthetics play an important role in map design, and piece usage factors into that; but it shouldn't limit the potential of the map itself. The creativity in forge should be more about the actual design of the map, not the fashion in which it was constructed. That may have been important in Halo 3, where aesthetics were more important and the act of building a map was difficult, but times have changed. The skill gap no longer exists in actually creating the map, but in how the map was designed and how well it plays. Obviously a single square block isn't creative on its own, but I can think of may things that can be done with blocks that can't be done with metal pieces. Limiting yourself and what you can build simply for aesthetics doesn't do you much good if the map plays poorly

He's not saying it's a bad tool. He's just saying that coordinates and magnets tend to hinder creativity as opposed to not having them. Which is completely true. We're not saying not to use them lol that's ridiculous. Don't bring this into the argument, we're talking about textures.

Lots of things could fit any given section of a map. And if I can do it with metal as opposed to stone, then I will. Why? Because it looks better, and it shows skill using metal pieces creatively. Aesthetics were NEVER more important than gameplay in Halo 3, stop using that as a scapegoat. You act like we don't care about how maps play because we were Halo 3 forgers.

You keep saying we're limiting ourselves because we use metal. In terms of the item limit, sure. But there's stone map you could make that we can't make exclusively out of metal, nothing. It's not like we go in forge and look at a bunch of weird metal pieces like the door and walkway cover and go "Okay, let's make a map out of this.". A lot of my maps are sketched out ahead of time in Block 4x4's just to get an idea of where I'm going. Stop acting like we're limiting our map designs around this, we're not. Also, if there was no skill gap in forge then all of our maps would look equally good. The 'skill gap' comes from creativity, and using items in new ways.

You know Lockout still had contrast, right? The interiors were lit differently than the exterior parts of the map, letting players clearly see the boundaries of different sections. Is the maps color palette monotonous? Yes. Is that an excuse now, ten years later? No. Same thing applies to Sandbox. There was no option for contrast on that canvas and, honestly, that hurt it at times. Reach had some of the same problems. It was easy to make a map that was ugly and all grey, but there were option to add contrast when needed. This was expanded on in Halo 4. The three original canvases in Halo 4 had a mix of dark and light pieces, which could be used to create beautiful maps that played well and relayed needed information to players about the structure of the map and position of enemy players. The maps were readable. Forge Island didn't have the same dark pieces, and many of the textures became even cleaner than before. This could easily lead to poor depth perception, especially in shadowed areas. How was this solved? People opted to use rocks in key locations to help with contrast and let players easily see where one angle would end and where another would begin. Contrast and depth perception have always been important factors in map design. You can ask any developer or map designer.

This is fair. And we're not denying that if we used a single walkway cover over and over that it might have some effect on depth perception. But we're not doing that, just like you're not only using block 4x4's for your whole map. We're not forging on Nebula, and it's not the first 10 seconds of Awash. There's pretty good lighting on all of our maps, and unless you're a cyclops there's no reason to even bring up contrast as an issue as if you're walking into walls. Yeah, colors are good for orientation. I'm not making my map a Polkda dot floor mat for the sake of orientation because it's not necessary. No one is going around bumping into walls on Lockout because it's all blue and they can't see and it's certainly not happening in H2A with a more dynamic lighting engine and saturated art syle.


The metal pieces are cool. We can all agree on that. Metal pieces can be used to create some very original and creative structures. Much of the wow factor comes from the difficulty in creating such structures. However, limiting yourself to only use metal pieces doesn't make you better than any other forger out there. It just means you're limiting yourself for the sake of aesthetics. Aesthetics should form around a design and work in tandem with the layout of the map to help players orient themselves, see other players, and make callouts. If your aesthetics are directly countering gameplay, then you've gone too far.

I'm going to keep restating this, because you insist on continuing to bring it up. We're not sacrificing any gameplay by using all metal. We can both agree it looks nice, yes? Then good, that's what we're aiming for. None of us go "Damn I really would make the other half of this map if I had more metal pieces!". It's just a choice. Why? Because it looks good, and it shows skill in forge. Stone maps don't impress me anymore, no matter how nice they play they need to be well forged too to catch me eye. Because in the end that's all forging is; making maps that play good and look good. If you're only doing half you're not a good forger.

The way a map looked and how it was built used to be very important back in Halo 3, but times have changed. The community has changed. The games have changed. Forge has changed. Just because you made a name for yourself back then doesn't mean that name carries any weight now. Forgers now have different ways of doing things and different values. We value design and gameplay. We value player orientation. We value target acquisition. We value map readablility. We value intuitive design. Aesthetics come second to gameplay, and should always help gameplay, not hurt it. If you guys want to continue limiting yourselves just so you can say you built a map under said limitations, that's fine. But don't come in here preaching about how your ways are superior, because they're not. Learn how to design a map around gameplay, and leave your god complex at home.

Class dismissed.

You were okay up until this point, then your immaturity shines.

At no point in Halo 3 did anyone value aesthetics overly gameplay. I'll go on record saying that the forge maps that were released during the end of Halo 3, were better than any single forge map I've seen to this day. Better than anything this forum is pumping out now, and better than anything we've seen on disc since. I don't know why you keep insisting on making assertions about a time period that you were never apart of.

We value all the same things you do, but we also like making our maps actually not look like a slab of rock. No one is limiting themselves by using metal, you limit yourself as a forger when your maps look like something that my 10 month old son might've put together out of building blocks. Given never brought up anything that even hinted that we valued aesthetics over gameplay. All you do is use that as a fallback for why you refuse to advance yourself as a creative forger. Go back in this thread and quote Given with his 'God complex' because OP is one of the most respectful, and well worded posts I've seen on this forum. Much kinder than anything else I would've posted. You make these claims about our 'complex' and then end your rant with "Class dismissed" as if you're the all knowing teacher of all map principles and theory, when you're likely the youngest and most inexperienced forger to post in this thread with the least to show. When in reality, I've heard you talk down to more forgers then I have in my entire forging career. I've never once been in a party with you where you weren't bitching to someone about something that didn't even make sense to anyone else in the party. You remind me of someone native to this forums back in Halo 3 named AZN FTW. You're too young to remember him, but he was NOTORIOUS across all of Halo 3 for having the biggest ego claiming he was the greatest forger of all time, yet he wasn't good enough to forge his own maps and only made them in sketchup and hired other forgers. And as much as everyone hated him, his maps were BRILLIANT. Several got into matchmaking (Ravinia) and others were beyond creative (Helix).

You don't have this reputation. AZN FTW was a ****, but he made good maps. You talk big game, yet your maps are cookie cutter 90 angles that anyone whos forged for more than a week could've put together, and none of them stand out against any single other map posted here in the last 4 months. ALL THIS and I still held nothing against you, even when I sat in a party with several of my friends while you berated our maps. We chuckled but said nothing back because we didn't care to... But then you go and insult a kid (couldn't have been more than 10 years old) because his voice was high when all he asked the entire time, was the put on a map. You insulted this kid for even asking to do so when he's that young then called him a squeaker several times until he was embarrassed enough to leave. I invited him back to the party ten minutes later when you left and he was crying.




And you have the balls to tell Given that he has a God complex and to get over himself?

Grow the **** up. Your ego makes drunk snitchel look like a nun. I'm not impressed by your forging (nor is anyone). I'm not impressed with your supposed knowledge of forge. But most importantly I'm not impressed with your personality. You've contributed nothing to this thread aside from your snarky remarks, and everything you've brought up had either already been stated earlier and come to terms with, or assumed that we forge maps for the prettiness factor - which we never even hinted at. You might have the worst personality and ego out of any current forger and have the absolute least to show for it. Map design hasn't changed radically since Halo 2 to Halo 2A and you might have less experience in it than everyone in this thread, ESPECIALLY Given, so don't try and talk down to him. His knowledge on map design 8 years ago is better than yours now. I genuinely liked the conversation in this thread, even the opposing views, until you came.

@purely fat
If all my maps are mounds then every map on this forum is an African plain

 

Not saying you are wrong because everything surrounding this is opinion based. I've stated what I thought about the problem itself, now I'll dig into my opinions.

1. Your metal maps pull it off well aesthetics-wise but concrete looks significantly better and so would your maps if they were made of concrete in it's majority.

2. No matter how much skill you have the shapes of primarily metal will limit your design possibilities. Not saying good maps can't be made, just saying the maps could always benefit if the metal objects were in block form as well.

3. From a competitive stand point, maps should always play better than it looks. This goes from forge maps the whole way to dev maps. If it were up to me, every map would look like a polished blockout map. Just a simple shell with no noisy visuals, clutter or snags. (Your maps and metal maps aren't the target of this point but directed generally to all maps for ever game out there. *cough* solace, abandon *cough*)

Again, these are only opinions. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Or something like that. As forger, we are essentially only artists developing things we like because we like it. We don't get compensated in anything but graces, so we have no obligation to appeal to everyone or anyone for that matter.

 

I don't agree with quite everything you say but a lot of it I do. And I like the way you always state your opinion, you come off really reasonable and understanding. Hope to see more of you in H5 :3

 

Haha, looks like someone's getting heated. First off, the "class dismissed" thing was just keeping in theme with the start of the post "time to go to school". Second, you barely know me. You've barely talked to me. The few times you have, you've put me into a bad mood by acting like you're some god-send here to help us lowly post-Halo 3 forgers learn the basics of map design. I never claimed to know everything, nor have I claimed that every map I make is a masterpiece. I've had my fair share of successes and failures, just like anyone else. The difference is that I learn from my mistakes, and the mistakes of others, and pass that knowledge on. I can be harsh, yes, but someone has to be the voice of reason in a community where everyone sugar coats feedback in fear of hurting someones feelings. I say what others are afraid to in hopes of helping someone create a better map, and I wish more people would do the same for my maps. Instead, I get vague comments like "it's cool" or "I like it" or "this sucks" without any reasoning, so I have to go and try to learn what I can from other maps on my own. Your attitude is no better than mine. You and Given act all high and mighty because you forged back in Halo 3, and it's incredibly obnoxious. You two act like you know better than the rest of us because you were around back in the day. Well guess what, you both left and the community evolved and changed without you. You can't come back suddenly and expect the same respect from strangers. This isn't about the original post anymore, and a lot of the points I made were based on previous interactions with you. Both of you are extremely pretentious and passive aggressive. That "Squally MLG" map? Yeah, you guys are ones to talk about maturity. Until you do something to actually earn my respect, I'll continue to act the way I do, because people like you need to see that not everyone thinks you're amazing.

 

@Squally

Not heated, you just act like a child. Which wouldn't bother me if you didn't make an ACTUAL child leave the party crying because "squeakers shouldn't be asking to put a map on." Yeah, that pissed me off.

Every time I've been in a party with you, I've never ONCE said ANYTHING that would remotely suggest that I'm better, or even given advice on any map.

I've never mentioned that I was a Halo 3 Forger.
I've never made any sort of comment or feedback on your map, or even any map that was being played.
I've never talked about map design.

In fact, I either was silent, or didn't even talk about Halo or Forge altogether! If I recall myself, Kurismic, Given, and moo were just talking about video game lore, using pistols, why dual weilding is weird, things like that. Most of us were either laughing like girls or just silent. What exactly did I say that set you off exactly? Go ahead and quote my words for everyone to see. Because if I recall correctly.. I've never even addressed a question to you at all, most of the time we ignored you or brushed off your remarks.


On the other hand, here are some of the short conversations I've had with you.

Myself (to everyone in the party): I'm really happy how this map turned out, I think it's my best yet.
Squally: That's really sad then.

When someone asked me why I like metal, I replied "I dunno, I just think it's prettier than stone". You promptly replied with "REAL forgers use all the tools available to them".

When someone asked me how I thought a certain map played, before I even responded you said "Multi doesn't care how a map plays, he only cares how it looks."


Those are just three examples of many remarks you made. Keep in mind, never did I (or anyone else in the party) even say ANYTHING at all to reply to you. Most of the time I kept my mouth shut, others I chuckled and changed the subject.

Unless I'm lying, then go ahead and tell Forgehub what exactly I've said that was so rude and condescending. Put it in quotes, and if I posted it on any forum go ahead and drop a link to it. Because I don't think I've ever even addressed a forge related question at you. You're pulling all this 'high and mighty' act that I supposedly do out of your ass because you have nothing better to fall back on. I'm done talking to you, enjoy my absence.

 

This thread is literally the embodiment of Forgehub before '14 lol.

 

Ok, fine. I'm done too after this. Multi, the first time we met you specifically told me that you were a Halo 3 forger, then proceeded to show me some of your maps, where you told me that you were focusing more on aesthetics. Since then, I've seen that trend in a lot of your maps, so I put the pieces of the puzzle together. Always talking about how all metal looks better, and always condescending me, my play style, and my maps. You say you never talk about any of this stuff, yet when we played that 2V2, you couldn't shut up about how I didn't know what I was talking about when giving feedback on the map and about how amazingly well it was designed. So, you DID mention you were a Halo 3 forger. You DID comment on my maps. You DID talk about map design. Also, you're rephrasing some of the things I said to make them sound worse, which they naturally will out of context. Don't paint yourself as a victim here. We're both just as responsible for going at each others throats. I was giving negative feedback on your map, so you told me I had no idea what I was talking about. A squeaker was constantly bugging us about putting on something that wasn't relative to the sort of lobby that was being run, so I told him to knock it off. Am I the bad guy here? Maybe, but that doesn't mean you're some hero. You're just as bad as I am, except I actually say whats on my mind in lobbies, whereas you take the passive aggressive route, which pisses me off more than anything else. I'll gladly enjoy your absence. Hopefully the mods lock this thread. I've had enough.

 

I'm better than all of you!

 

Squally you are blatantly lying about many of the things you are posting in response to Multi. I'm not saying this in order to support one side or the other, but to merely express my concern. You are trying to debate one person about the validity of their opinions in comparison to yours by providing falsified evidence, that of which cannot be disproven in any empirical way, which is frankly disgusting and you should set higher standards for yourself.