No More Midship Forumla

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by Savagearbiter, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Savagearbiter

    Savagearbiter Legendary

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  2. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    You really think the map looks good? A lot of forgers had made asyms. in the past for this but they want midship. Guardian is a better map than lockout. Construct was an asym. as well and was great for hill. The problem that asyms. have are that they don't get enough proper testing because forgers suck at the game and so when the pros finally start playing and come up with strats the map ends up playing worse. On top of them not wanting to learn the maps. If there is going to be an asym. 343 is going to have to make it for them to want to even try it. I blame pros that became pros in H3 because they played tons of onslaught, amplified, lockdown, and midship. That is all they know and want.
     
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  3. Doju

    Doju Promethean
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    "Tesla is beautiful"

    ~Savagearbiter 2015

    Also, just because pros selected middys doesn't mean forgers haven't been.
     
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  4. Given To Fly

    Given To Fly MP Level Designer
    343 Industries

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    I started this video hoping you had strong valid points, and the second you said "Tesla is beautiful" I just about shut my laptop, and threw it out my closed window.
    First, I'd like to say Tesla is ugly. There is no creativity in that map. That goes for design as well as piece usage. Nothing about it is beautiful. You must have loved day 1 foundry maps as well.
    Secondly, The Midship formula is not broken, it is just being replicated (and poorly at that) much too strictly. By that I mean everyone who makes a midship inspired map, just rebuilds midship... Think of Sanctuary, it also has identical bases, side bases, and a middle with a power weapon. Yet when you play Midship and Sanctuary back to back they feel different. They use the same formula. Arena map. Maps Like Midship, Sanctuary, Battle Creek, The Pit, and Valhalla all have the same formula at their core, but are all extremely different maps that play differently as well.

    It may sound weird comparing those maps together, but their bones are all the same. There are ways to create unique and different styled maps that generate the same competitive feel, we just need to experiment in order to achieve it.
     
  5. moo43

    moo43 Talented
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    See now this guy knows what he's talking about.
     
  6. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
    Forge Critic Wiki Contributor Senior Member

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    I appreciate the basic sentiments expressed in the video because I'm strongly in favor of pushing the envelope...of stretching pro's beyond their comfort zones. However, I don't think that means the Midship Formula should be strictly avoided. Midship is probably my favorite map ever. If it was remade in H2A, I would consider it a travesty if it wasn't used in HCS.

    The problem lies not in the formula itself, but in the fact that the forge iterations of the formula are too watered down. They lack the minor elevation changes, they lack the structure that provides cover for safe spawning, they lack creative movement options, etc.
    If you give an award winning recipe to someone who has insufficient cooking experience, what they make is going to have significantly less flavor than if it were prepared by a seasoned cook. In such a case, you have to blame the cook, not the recipe.
     
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  7. Blaze

    Blaze Sustain Designer
    Forge Critic Creative Force Senior Member

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    Midship simply works in halo. Probably the best formula for gameplay in general if you want fair matches.

    Serious question though, have you ever looked at any forge maps that weren't in matchmaking? There are plenty of great asymmetrical maps, there plenty of great symmetrical that aren't midship-esc either and hell, there are even original 2 base 2 tower maps.

    Lastly, have you ever looked at any other forge maps period? Tesla isn't "Beautiful". It's had to make a map look good with the resources of forge but you can easily tell it's by someone pretty new to forge. Part of the reason why everyone is hating on it.
     
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  8. Untouched fish

    Untouched fish Legendary

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    I find tesla a ugly map especially with the stripes Being Different colors Like Purple, yellow ,red and blue in such a small Area
     
    #8 Untouched fish, Apr 4, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
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  9. Doju

    Doju Promethean
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    Nothing more I hate than this. Balance does not equal great, the best esports/MP games have a massive degree of imbalance/asymmetry which is far more interesting than the competitive Halo version of esports, which is equal starts, equal maps, no power weapons, pure BRs etc

    (not picking on your quote specifically but I see this said a lot, agree with the rest of your post though.)
     
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  10. ald_

    ald_ Forerunner
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    I agree that there are tons of more deserving designs and Tesla is just playing it safe with the Midship design, but the Midship formula is not at all a stale thing in my opinion. I enjoy playing and watching Midship.

    I disagree that Tesla is beautiful, because it's not really that great looking. However, I love the clean an simple design. I wouldn't enter it into the beauty pageant but it isn't overwhelming and that's what I appreciate.

    Off topic, but someone needs to remake MLG Nexus. That was the most beautifully designed Forge map I've ever seen
     
  11. MartianMallCop

    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    "Tesla is beautiful". God that's hilarious. Tesla is the ugliest looking map claiming to be good I've ever seen. Its just plain disgusting and an insult to all forgers. Damn.. rant over
     
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  12. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    The second you said "Tesla is beautiful" I stopped listening, downvoted your video, and closed the tab. Because I knew you had no idea what you were talking about.
     
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  13. Doju

    Doju Promethean
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    I didnt realise how "safe" it is to get upto P3, that power position is a little too over protected.
     
  14. Blaze

    Blaze Sustain Designer
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    I get what youre saying but midship is the perfect kind of balance to work great for everything. It may be boring to some though that doesn't change the fact that it's probably the most well made map in halo history for competitive play. It's the go to map for a team to show straight up skill and doesn't rely too heavy on set up control or in depth map knowledge. In my opinion of course.
     
  15. Doju

    Doju Promethean
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    Id say thats a bad thing. Map embodies BR Halo too much for my liking.



    Thanks for that
     
    #15 Doju, Apr 5, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  16. Untouched fish

    Untouched fish Legendary

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    The tesla is beautiful comment makes me laugh my arse off
     
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  17. Given To Fly

    Given To Fly MP Level Designer
    343 Industries

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    This is why we're friends.
     
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  18. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    That and the buttsecks
     
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  19. SteelGreen

    SteelGreen StoolGreen

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. Untouched fish

    Untouched fish Legendary

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    Is it me or have we drove this guy off forgehub
     

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