Oh. I actually never noticed that. Then again, I didn't go to THC that much. But how about my question? When you say "Scale the map down" do you mean making the routes/paths shorter and the bases smaller?
Make everything smaller. As I stated the first time I gave you feedback on Novus a few weeks ago, the real issue with this map isn't so much the scale but more so the segmentation. You have walls and pillars everywhere and very very controlled sightlines. The map is an open arena but it plays like a room based map. It is very hard to find players because there is endless walls and pillars that block off sightlines and send players circling around each other instead of confronting each other. You need to tear down a ton of these line of sight blockers and implement more usable geometry. Block lines of sight through map geometry, not pillars that are there solely to occupy dead space. For example: Almost every rock, ramp, railing and artifact base that you see in this screen capture serves as a line of sight blocker. However, each piece has multiple functions. You can use them as cover, or something to jump on to gain a line of sight across the map, or geometry that helps you to out BR your opponent through head glitching, peak-shot and strafing. This is what I mean by usable geometry. The idea is to empower the player - not restrict them. Give players geometry that they can use in multiple ways to widen the skill gap. This type of geometry will make the gameplay on your map evolve over time, with players learning how to use the geometry in different ways to out smart their opponents. When your map only consists of massive walls and pillars that only serve as line of sight blockers that occupy dead space, huge amounts of segmentation occurs and you are forcing players to only use your geometry in one way. Forgers need to build maps for the mechanics of Halo.
This is why I haven't submitted Arboretum for testing in this lobby. It's not going to play well with unity+ settings, like a hardcore competitive map would, and it's designed for sprint and plays a lot like Adrift. So I don't think it'll work for these guys.
Hehe. I think can bank on at least one comment for the Artifact test. You could fit 3 Novuses in Artifact!
I'm tempted to make a Curb Stomp joke, but I don't think you were there for that and I would feel bad making two inside jokes at somebody else's expense in as many days.. @Zandril holy cow, what sites are you not in? I find your name and avatar in the most random of places.. @Juanez Can't hurt to try it, if it does work, then great, but if it doesn't, oh well. You have nothing to lose, man.
Map Name: Eulogy Forger: Noooooch Player Count: 4-8 Primary Test Gametype: Extraction Thread Link: http://www.forgehub.com/forum/wip-works-progress/147276-eulogy.html Download Link: File Browser Halo Official Site
Map Name: Five Color Paradigm Forger: Sunlit Fallen Player Count: 4-8 Primary Test Gametype: Slayer Thread Link: Five Color Paradigm Download Link: File Browser
Map Name: Limitless Forger: THE SLAMMERSS Player Count: 2-8 Primary Test Gametype: Slayer, KOTH Download Link: File Share Halo Official Site Thread Link: http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-4-maps-gametypes/147270-limitless.html
Map Name: Salem Forger: Obi Wai Kenobi Player Count: 4-8 Primary Test Gametype: Slayer Thread Link: Salem Download Link: HERE
Map Name: Limitless Forger: THE SLAMMERSS Player Count: 2-8 Primary Test Gametype: Slayer, Koth Thread Link: [URL="http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-4-maps-gametypes/147270-limitless.html"]Limitless[/URL][B] Map Link: [/B]File Share Halo Official Site
Fated, I don't know if you've had a chance yet to test Artifact, but it has had some updates since I posted the earlier link that should make it play better by emphasizing the second-level entrances and de-emphasizing the first-level entrances (thanks, Juanez). I removed the previous version from my fileshare - so only the most recent one is there. The previous link works to take you to it. It is far too big for 2v2. 4v4 and CTF should work okay (4v4 was actually a bit fast despite the size of the map prior to the changes, but that was because the perimeter was underutilized). As mentioned in the map thread, the map is sized to work better for 8-player FFAs and BTB. Despite that, if you are still willing to test it 4v4, I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Though FFAs and BTB are primary, it is also meant to play well 4v4, and having your eyes on it would be excellent. Thanks in advance!
Eulogy Tested 4v4 Slayer on this with no sprint and got wrecked. Eulogy played fast paced and had a solid balance of long sightlines and segmentation. Most significant issue I had was the piece usage and bumpy connections. The reverse side of bridge pieces, while very clean aesthetically, are a nightmare to connect with most forge pieces. These bridges made up most of your main pathing around the center of the map and IMO an alternative selection of pieces will improve the feel of the map. I have yet to test the updated version with the middle bridge so I will run Extraction on that version as soon as I can. Salem The aesthetics and forging is really solid but the design needs a ton of work IMO. The Damnation influence is noticeable in the look but not in the feel. Salem plays very symmetrical. Red and blue side, with the exception of the teleporter, are very similar to each other. The map is basically a big rectangle divided into 3 sections, and as a result plays very segmented. While red side has a teleporter, if you find yourself on blue side or without knowledge of the teleporter location, it takes a very long time to reach the upper levels. Most combat occurs on the lower tiers because players have to go very out of their way to reach the upper levels, whereas with Damnation much of the map flow was directed to the upper levels on both sides. The sniper wing addition feels fairly disconnected from the map as well, and blue ownership of the sniper doesn’t equally counter the ease of access red side has to the upper levels through the teleporter. Also, those 3x3 blocks used for the upper walkways provide too much cover for players up there. I’d suggest replacing them with 2x2’s instead. I personally think Blue side needs to be reforged with a different layout that directs flow to the upper levels faster. I've looked at Limitless and Artifact in forge but have yet to run tests. Feedback coming soon.
Fated you do realize that if you look at an overview of damnation it is 3 boxes. Just throwing that out there. I find damnation to be an overrated design because structurally its very unique. With out the the little querks that Halo CE had the maps gameplay is more of a stalemate than the pit. Except Damnation is no balanced where the pit is. Whoever made that map I would check out maps like halcyon and xyience from halo 3. Those are probably the most successful damnation inspired map there have been. Another important thing to remember with any vertical map as well is keep the high areas opened or at least dangerous to traverse. You do not want the highest point to be safe. When it comes to designing anything asymmetric you must look at risk verses reward as one of your most most important aspects in the design. Try taking influence from other maps that you think will compliment the design of damnation. A map that did this well was the hangout (Hang'em high + chill out) which I am sure you could find a sketch up or a remake of somewhere.
True. But those 3 boxes on Damnation had far more connectivity to each other and cross map sightlines than the 3 boxes on Salem. The segmentation is amplified on Salem because there is only two windows out of red side and three out of blue, with all 5 sightlines directed towards bottom mid. Agreed on your argument for risk vs reward on verticality and power positions as well. The catwalks on Salem are very protected, easy to traverse, and hard to reach.
So would you say that Eulogy can support 4v4? I can switch out the bridge pieces for smoother flooring no problem.
Thanks for the feedback Fated and Tyrant, appreciate it. I'm going to give blue side a redesign and try to make sniper catwalk more connected and giving blue a direct connection to the top. I propably need to rebuild red aswell, cause by replacing the topcatwalk to 2x2's it doesnt give the sightlines downward that I want it to have. So got a lot of work to do But thanks again guys, its really helpfull!
I don't know when the next lobby will be but heres the info: Map: Vanguard Forgers: HissingWings, Spiderman cy12, viperwolf96 Players: 6-8 (preferably 4v4) Gametype: BR slayer (DL link is in the thread) Thread Link:http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-4-maps-gametypes/147215-vanguard.html I won't be on for that much tonight because I have to get up early tomorrow but saturday I could try to get on for a while
I have test versions of 2 maps. If you can fit them in some time, that would be great. Map Name: Akasha - Test Forger: a Chunk Player Count: 4 Primary Test Gametype: Slayer or Extraction Download Link/Thread Link: Download Link/Thread Link Map Name: Atlas - Test Forger: a Chunk Player Count: 6-8 Primary Test Gametype: Slayer Download Link/Thread Link: Download Link/Thread Link