That is impossible. I just took a look in forge and the entire CTF spawning system is not set up correctly. Claymore, you do not solely use anti-respawn zones for a static spawning system. Delete every anti-respawn zone you currently have on the map. Select "Respawn Zone" from the spawning section. For red side, set Team = Defender, Game Type Specific = True, Label = CTF Same deal for blue side except Team = Attacker Once both respawn zones are set up correctly, duplicate them twice each. You should have a total of 3 respawn zones stacked on each other for each team. Your flag away from home respawn zones were set up incorrectly as well. Even had you set them up correctly, you do not need them. Lets say red teams' flag away respawn area was green. What if blue team pulled the flag to green? Red team would spawn at green and be able to challenge the flag instantly creating a terrible gameplay scenario. Anti-respawn zones have very specific uses. One function is to create negative weighting on the most dangerous respawn points so that spawning only occurs there when it is completely safe or a teammate is nearby. The goal with a static spawning system is to create a huge amount of positive weighting for each team on their side of the map so that they always spawn there. CTF is the primary gametype I build for and it is impossible that players were always spawning on the correct side with your current setup. The issues have always been there, you just may not have been aware they were issues.
I agree with everything you said, except this. This is how I use Anti zones in asymmetrical gametypes (to reduce the likelihood of spawning in a dangerous location). However, for sided gametypes like CTF I generally use Anti zones to serve the opposite purpose. I use them to reduce the likelihood of spawning in locations that are too advantageous. On CTF, I place Anti zones around the spawn points in the center of the map to reduce the chances of spawning too close to the opponents flag.
I should rephrase it to "one of the functions". That function is very important and key to a CTF respawn system as well.
Are you calling both me and Sanchez liars? Trust me, we've played this map on CTF extensively and have never had this issue pop up. Is it possible, yes absolutely it's possible. Could I make it impossible to spawn in the enemy base, yes. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. Because my respawn system is different then the one that you employ doen't mean it's broken or not functioning 100% correctly as intended. I set up a universal respawn system for my maps, meaning they will work on ANY gametypes... Altho admittedly maybe not 100% perfect, as I beleive that is impossible due to H4's built in systems. Thanks for explaining the extremely simple spawn system that you use. I could explain my respawn system to you but it's a waste of my time, every thing you do is right and perfect anyone that does it differently is broken and wrong. Keep that attitude and see how far it gets you. Good bye.
Let's calm down everyone and go back to enjoying halo maps. Please take any further arguing to PM and work it out there. Members want to sign up for testing sessions here, not read drama that doesn't matter.
Uh, i didn't mean to start an arguement, i just was saying that in all the the tests we have run on palisade, it has never been mentioned that teams were spawning on each others flag. So you can imagine our suprise at hearing that you had to stop the game due to this. I have had to stop games under similar situations myself. I do not have a saved film of palisade CTF but i must surmise that teams can spawn in the unassigned bases in the corners, which is closer to the enemy flag but not on it. The map does play ctf in a very fast and unique way, in my experience...
the circle or JERK eh? but seriously, stop looking down on the feedback and take it, i can see how its entirely possible that you've never ran into any kind of trouble with it based on the kind of players you have testing the map. with double stacked anti respawn zones and bad players (using this loosely) its very easy for no problems to appear from the nature of how the players are playing, mainly the point that they aren't stressing to push in hard and really try and kill you have spawn, control your area and manipulate the spawns, instead they're going to be more randomly spread out around the map not putting any real negative influence on the flags to cause a spawn flip so in the end it appears that all is well. with fateds usual testers though, they will stress and push maps to there limits by working together more as a team trying to control the map in its more entirety, they will be well organized well grouped and set up around the objectives controlling the area and manipulating the spawns putting some strong negative influences on the objective to cause such a spawn flip. the spawn system in halo 4 is set up in a certain way and such there are things that work and things that don't. for creating static spawns the thing that does work is stacking 3 respawn zones and setting them to a specific team, it is typically respawn zones how ever as i understand it an anti-respawn zones has the same level of influence but negatively, so you could tripple stack anti-respawn zones instead and get the same result. how ever respawn zone makes more sense from a more debug standpoint because when going back and reviewing the spawns its more recognizable and less confusing to see a team labeled respawn zone over its team area instead of the other way around. i also hate to break it to you but it is impossible to create a universal working spawn setup for every gametype because each gametype has a distinct gameplay difference requiring a different spawn set up in order for it to work at its best. the main thing that differentiates the gametypes is symmetrical vs asymmetrical, symmetrical gametypes need static spawning while asymmetrical gametypes require dynamic spawning, this main basic difference is what makes it impossible to create a universal working spawn set up for every gametype since you can't create static and dynamic spawn set up at the same time. this is where gametype labels come in with the respawn zones, they allow you to have dynamic spawning for asymmetrical gametypes and vice versa. of course it does get more detailed to more you delve into it since each gametype also has different strategies and movement creating different influences and spawn characteristics which may need to be addressed with more fine tuning use of spawn zones. spawning isn't some trivial task either, not like it was in reach, in H4 it can takes hundreds of games of teaking and testing to real dial down the spawns, each map is also different so one solution that worked for one map won't carry over to another map. so, you really have to spend ALOT of time learning how the spawn system works and utilizing the spawn zones to really fine tune things. finding spawn problems and dealing with reports of bad spawning isn't easy either since is entirely situational, just because someone is spawning poorly doesn't mean the spawns are set up badly, it could just be that the player or his team is performing poorly, positioning themselves bad ETC that bad spawns are happening because they're putting themselves in a bad position. it can also just be a matter of learning the map, when a player doesn't know a map they can and often do end up making bad decisions, straying away from there team and so on resulting in bad spawning happening, once they learn the map everything smoothens out. have fun fixing those spawns.
@AnotherClaymore, you submitted your map for testing in my lobby. I gave you honest and descriptive feedback on how to improve your spawn system so that your map can play the gametype you intend it to play. I am not here to attack you or call you a liar, I am here to represent the feedback from my testing lobby so that you can make improvements to your map. In the future, please do not be so defensive. One of the most important attributes a forger can have is to be loosely attached to their own work, and accepting that their understanding of one thing or another may not be the most correct or complete understanding. The "extremely simple" spawn system that I use is a proven method of success, and most maps require setting up several spawn systems to account for multiple static and dynamic gametypes. If players are spawning at the enemy flag in a CTF match, the spawn system is not functioning and the gametype itself is rendered broken by the spawns. Moving on. Furlough, Bankrupt, and Novus v2 will get tests tomorrow night.
I never got defensive until you told me that it was impossible that I haven't had the team spawn in the opposite base. It is very possible, I've tested this map many times and never ran into that particular problem. I never said that it was impossible. Like you did, very arrogant. Reguardless, I posted my map in this thread BEFORE you editted the original post to say that you use 'modded' gametypes. I didn't know that you run strictly MLG type settings, I find those settings incredible bland and boring. I use Matchmaking settings, it's fine just two different approaches. I still appreciate the feedback, and I will put together a version of this map with your perfect "proven" spawn system as you decribed. In some faint hope that maybe I might get a little bit of useible input, its good to see the map from many different perpectives. The more people that play the map on as many different settings the better. Are there any other completely broken and unplayable game breaking changes that I need to make for you, your majesty?
If he had a bad time on your map, he had a bad time on your map. If the spawn changes he's suggesting are better, they're better. If not, they're not. No need to get angry over things like this when you don't even know if spawns will be better or not with the changes that the testing lobby suggested. I have no idea why there were bad spawns in that one particular game, but no harm can come from trying various peoples' suggestions / feedback, even if you don't think it'll work. If what Fated Fire wrote about messes up the map, just revert the changes. I can run a test game on your map for myself and ask the people in the lobby about their spawns if you'd like another outside test. Just let me know if you want me to put this up next time I'm playing customs and tell me what gametype to use. Can I get in for this? I'm curious about the changes to Novus especially. Also, overkill has a mod with no waypoints on ordnance. )))))) and amazing scattershots
I think this might be ready for some testing now. As multiple opinions help, I will also try to get on with the TCOJ guys again. Map Name: Artifact Forger: Maximus IL Player Count: 8-16 Primary Test Gametype: Slayer Thread Link: Artifact Preview Map Link: Fileshare
Finally got around to playing Novus, Bankrupt, and Furlough the other day. Novus: This map has come a long way since the first test and its awesome to see what you changed based on feedback from Warholic, Chunk, Auburn, Shoe and I. The routes felt more streamlined and red base was improved exponentially. However, the most significant gameplay issue this map had is still very apparent - it plays very slow. I suggested a complete reforge from the ground up hoping that you would scale down the map, because currently the map is just huge. I, along with the other testers, spent very long periods of time wandering around the map uncontested. We had to go looking for combat instead of combat finding us, and it seemed there were several areas of the map that were very underused. Bankrupt: Gigantic. Very over-scaled for 4v4 gameplay. Similar issue to Novus in that players would wander the map uncontested for long periods of time. The design of this map is somewhat similar to Dispatch, except 2x or 3x the scale with even more overlap. There were also several questionable areas of geometry, including massive hiding spots bottom mid around that center structure. Furlough: This map had some potential. It felt like a Halo map, which is honestly the ultimate goal when forging - building maps for the game. Gameplay speed wasn't too slow but still on the slower side, and Furlough could definitely benefit from being scaled down. I kept comparing it in my head to an over-scaled Lockout. Despite the slower gameplay, the map was still fun to play and with some adjustments could be a really good map. I'll be testing Artifact tonight or tomorrow.
Thanks. I'm glad you think the changes were good. But how many people did you have when you played it? The map's not meant for 4v4.
Your testing submission says 8-10 players. 4v4 and 5v5 fall into that description. I thought I made this clear earlier in the thread, but maybe not as clear as I should have. This competitive forge test lobby only tests 4v4 and 2v2 maps. All testing will be done on no sprint settings. If your map is not intended for 4v4 or 2v2, this is not the lobby to submit your map to for testing.
When you say scale it down, do you mean that I should shorten the routes and stuff like that? Because seeing as 4v4 is the most common matchup, I want it to work for that number of players. I want to make this map the best it can be. Working on it. Sh** gets hard.
Wut? I wasn't addressing Novus. Fated just needs to scale everything down. Even his octagons are too large. IDK if you were there for that joke..
IDK if you were there for that joke, because that isn't how it went down lol. Or maybe you are just trolling me. Either way Zandril, On THC I had a reputation for always telling people, especially Dax , to scale down their maps or to "make it smaller". The forge staff then decided to make that line my member title.