Why I am done, and why you deserve to know

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Vincent Torre, May 20, 2013.

  1. Vincent Torre

    Vincent Torre Ancient
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    I'm sorry to let you down community, but I have not been able to accomplish what I set out to do. I was hoping I could breathe life into a dying giant, but the wounds were too deep and refused to close.

    My goals as a journalist were to fix the major glaring issues with the website; a theme that was from a different game, a forum engine from 2006, and a lack of interesting content. I would like to think I made an impact on the site. I believe my work behind the scenes spurred Kajin to go forward with an upgrade that has been in the making for nearly a year. I also led the drive to have the community submit their ideas for the forum theme. Trying to both create community involvement and hopefully instill a sense of pride in the website, knowing that it came from a member.

    [​IMG]
    Note: Units are members/day averaged over a week.
    The week when FH hit 9/day corresponds to the forum upgrade.


    I know I didn't put out as regular of content as I could have, but there are times where all you can do is rehash the same couple things over and over, which is dull. I hope my articles were at least somewhat engaging and informative. I enjoyed writing them and I hope you enjoyed reading them.

    Those tasks were just a few of my goals as a journalist. I set out to bring changes into the way the forum worked. In my view ForgeHub should have been a community of people who enjoy creating, playing, and finding forge maps. It should also be a great place to receive advice from other forgers and map designers on how to improve. There was a time when this was the case, but something happened that caused it to stagnate.

    There are a lot of variables to any problem, and ForgeHub is no different. We have a long history of hosting forge maps, and that's probably not going anywhere. This is why we have a constant stream of 60-80 guests, searching for interesting maps and also the reason why ForgeHub.com is the first hit on Google for "Forge maps". Though the thing is the people that are forging maps are bouncing around several communities. The authors’ whole intention is getting as much attention for their map as possible.

    [​IMG]

    That's the thing though; ForgeHub now is just another piece in the pie. People are noticing that less and less is being said on here, especially about maps. The incentive to post or stay on ForgeHub after posting their first map is gone. Thus while you see ForgeHub continues to grow slowly, it does not retain members and our typical online member count is between 5 and 15. These numbers are embarrassingly low for a community of "60,000".

    Now I've heard plenty of comments like "The reason why the community is not growing is because Halo 4 is bad." I can't argue the facts that Halo 4 has steadily been declining in popularity and player count since launch, the numbers don’t lie. While I do agree that the lack of Halo 4's success directly affects the communities. Though just looking at the statistics from these websites it's clear to see that even a small community like The Halo Council still manages respectable growth. Halo 4 is not as popular, but it still is a game that offers the most creative flexibility in a FPS. People are still out there forging and creating mini-games. They're just not posting it to ForgeHub.

    This is the problem on the surface. That is to say, these are the glaring problem that almost anyone who looks at ForgeHub can see. I've been told this plenty of times by plenty of people. I'm not the only one that sees it by any mean, and the real problems are deeper than that.

    For those of you that don't know ForgeHub is owned by Real Military Network. They own several communities outside of Halo and don't have a very big concern what goes on here. They only care if the websites they own continue to get hits. Every hit they get is ad-revenue. Since it's not a big cost difference between hosting one website vs. hosting 15, they don't mind continuing to pay the bills. Especially when you have something as nice as a top search hit like they have. They don't even care that it says Halo Reach maps. They have one person that I assume is on their payroll, Kajin, whose job it is to ensure that the site is stable and reliable. He is one of two people with root access.

    The other person with root access is Shock Theta. He's been the admin of ForgeHub for as long as I've been here. He actually had started work on VB4 and a new theme long time ago, but then he abandoned the project. He never got around to updating the homepage to say Halo 4 because the assumption was that VB4's homepage would be used instead of Wordpress. Now I don't know if it was lack of interest in Halo 4 or suddenly he gained a much busier life. Whatever the answer is he's vanished for a long time.

    Now no one has the ability to make quick changes to the forum. We can do small things like add/remove individual sub forums, but nothing complex like adding plugins to enhance the forum experience. This means that we are stuck with what we have. We don't even have the ability to remove where it says "Articles" in the themes. It's embarrassing to put content when we don't even have a fully functioning website.

    The lack of plugins means our map discussion offers no improvements on any other forum. There are no ranking, voting, or enhanced discussions options, and no way to add them either. It's boring and uninteresting so it's clear why people don't feel it necessary to post their maps here.

    Now those are just the things we can't control. What about the things we can? Surely we can launch contests and feature maps without plugins or root access, why can't we just continue to do that? Well remember that thing I said about not much discussion happens here, thus people aren't really interested in suggesting features to us. The bigger issue is that much of the staff doesn't contribute at all to this. That leaves the journalist team to handle the whole of the responsibility. Sure some mods help out on occasion, but only when it's convenient to them, and not with any sort of conviction and regularity. We all have lives and can only spend a few hours a week for the forums at max. This means that when we do get a chance to do anything, it's mostly discussing and debating plan of actions and not actually accomplishing anything. We do have a chance to playtest on the rare occasion, but we're faced with such high expectations we have difficulty coming to a group conclusion and most of our opinions are negative. It's not fun to try and find a feature hoping not to fail.

    As for dust up, again it's a lack of effort by the team. We had one admin who was dedicated to branching out to other communities to work on projects together. Though he was not interested in giving up control on them, by refusal to admit we didn't offer very much to anyone. This also meant that he was the only one felt worthy enough to branch out to companies on sponsorship. If we couldn't get some meaningful prizes for dust-up why would anyone come here to play it? It's destined to fail otherwise. Then he vanished for almost a month. Now we're in limbo, trying to test the awesome maps that you all made (while being insanely critical of them, sorry). We probably couldn't pick a half dozen maps from the list that we actually liked as a group, but would take playing another 30 or so maps. Judging by the fact that it has taken forever just to test them all, I can't imagine having the time to do it all again but with an even finer tooth comb. And again, no one but 2-3 people out of the staff were even interested in testing.

    The journalists have been dropping like flies, because we were the only one accomplishing anything and we know it. The mods tend to just view it as their job to get mod actions to meet their quota of actions. That's right, the moderators are shown their monthly statistic to compare them with the other moderators. This is their only metric on keeping the job, so all they have to do is get on for a little while, poke around and do some mod actions, and they can keep their Orange name. I don't necessarily think they do it out of ill intent, as most of these are good guys who are just trying to help keep the site clean. I know I've been there before, but it was a different time.

    Now one final question remains, why Kajin has not just given root access to someone? I think part of it was because he was waiting to get the theme content from the contest, but then nothing really ever happened with it. He disappeared for over a month now and I don't know how to contact him. There is someone who could contact him, but he doesn't want to. I think the reason for this is that this person is the only one with the "privileges" of getting root access, but what would he do with this ability? I don't think he's ever run a website from its core to understand what to do to modify it. Maybe I'm wrong and he does, but I'm hesitant to believe it. There is one person on staff who does have the skills to code the website, but he's far too busy with school and working on his YouTube channel to deal with that. He also hasn't been viewed worthy enough to get the rank needed for root access, even though he's a long time staff member.

    If you were part of a Halo community wouldn't you appreciate administrators that branched out to the community in games and conversation? Well imagine that you were on staff, wouldn't you want someone that helped out on projects and content? Tested maps and played the game? Yeah well I would too. Unfortunately our one remaining admin doesn't even have Halo 4 anymore. Nor does he help share the burden, but rather commands actions . He treats the staff as if they were his child, rather than adults and equals. He comments that he's "learning our personality" instead of trusting us to operate the site unhindered. He prefers to maintain complete control, even though the stagnation is driving the site into the ground.

    Now I realize this is a lot of information, but I feel that the community deserves to know. I was shocked when I got selected to be put on staff by the lack of happening behind the scenes. They always talk big, but the big secret is almost nothing is happening.

    The questions I have for the staff is, are you here because you actually care about ForgeHub? Or are you here because you just like having a colored name, and getting attention from it?
     
  2. Audienceofone

    Audienceofone Forerunner
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    Vincent basically summed up my thoughts as well. I'm sorry guys, but I'm done here as well. The whole experience as staff has honestly made me fail to enjoy Halo 4 in well over a month. We're crippled without root admins and the minor things we can fix don't really help the site so much. It's like fighting a bear with only a fish taped to our hands. I've got better things to stress over than this. I genuinely wanted to help Forge Hub. It was where I learned to forge and gained an appreciation for Halo through this site. There are several of you I truly love conversing with and it's been a great time with you. However, I can't be staff any longer. It's been a horrible experience.

    I wanted to try and stick it out until dust up was done, but the thing is, we haven't been working on it for well over a month and haven't tested all the near 70 entries. I would say 'yet', but I don't think it will ever get done. There was really just about 3 of us who were frequently trying to test, and then one got busy, my grandmother died and my life got crazy, and our 'leaders' either didnt show up or didnt help.

    Sorry to let you all down, but we really can't do anything here. We don't have the keys to Forgehub.

    You have my request for a grey name, TZ.
     
    #2 Audienceofone, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  3. Monolith

    Monolith Ancient
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    Yeah, can't say I haven't noticed the recent downturn in site activity. You guys did a good job of enhancing the community, sucks to see you go. As for the website, I don't really know the whole story but from what you have to say it seems pretty awful. Wish I had something inciteful to say but I just don't know enough with these matters, only the output.
     
  4. Tedium

    Tedium Lead Writer
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    I agree completely with Audience and Vincent. I've gone into more detail in the Staff forums, but I'm not quite ready to give up yet. Just don't be surprised if my name turns grey in the coming days.

    Edit: ...or hours!
     
    #4 Tedium, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  5. ChronoTempest

    ChronoTempest Senior Member
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    I've helped out with a lot of forums, and the primary problem they would run into was a lack of tech admins. The first thing that has to be solved, as you said, is finding more admins who can work on the site itself, whether Shock comes back or not.
    For instance, I lost mod abilities in the TG when we recently split the Community forums, and I still don't have them back. I haven't even been able to use an avatar since before the upgrade for whatever reason.
     
  6. Elliot

    Elliot BIOC
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    It has been so painful to see the Forge Hub community go downhill for well over a year and this adds a massive lump to that pain. The situation has been laid out in front of us here, no holds barred. And I thank you for that, Vincent. It is evident that the root of the problem is, the leaders aren't leading. And to learn that the admin doesn't even have Halo 4 is just awful. We need staff that love to play Halo, but also have the relevant skills to run a site. The problem is, there isn't enough of them. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why you two are standing down, its a sinking ship without a captain at the wheel.

    Still, I'll stay with her until she is down and out.
     
  7. Grif

    Grif Na'vi Tits
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    See you starside.
     
  8. DunkinMyCookies

    DunkinMyCookies Ancient
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    Hey... Is he poking the new Bungie game?
     
  9. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
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    This post needed to be made for a long time. Thanks, Vince.

    See you all on Xbox Live.
     
  10. Tedium

    Tedium Lead Writer
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    Yep, looks like it's done then. Hello grayness! Farewell everyone! It's been a lot of fun. A short ride, but one I enjoyed taking. I don't know if anyone wants to know my own reasons for leaving, but if anyone's curious you can message me :)

    Boy, last time I was grey was back before I became a Loyal about two months after joining o_O

    I'll be around on the off chance that anyone misses me. If you know where to find me, I'll see you there! If not, I'd link you, but I think there's a rule against advertising other Halo or Customs related sites (wink wink).

    Ciao!
     
  11. Audienceofone

    Audienceofone Forerunner
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    It's good to be grey again.
     
  12. J DawgMillenium

    J DawgMillenium Promethean
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    I just noticed this topic, and it was an...honest read. However, if we have done anything this year, it is showing that a community can live (not thrive) independently. There will always be players who fall from the need of feedback, assistance, and testing on their maps. I will still be here to catch everyone who falls until my hands bleed.
     
  13. SilentJacket

    SilentJacket Forerunner
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    ok, I thought you were leaving 0.o


    In any case, Forge in H4 is kinda dead for me, but I'd be more than willing to continue my art competitions if anyone is interested

    E: just checked the stats:

    [​IMG]


    if anything is going to be done we need to work as a whole, not just 4 or 5 people.
     
    #13 SilentJacket, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  14. Nutduster

    Nutduster TCOJ
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    It's worth stating for the record that Forge Hub's problems go deeper, and farther back, than current leadership and current issues. I think a lot of what hurt the site in a big way goes back to site policies and attitudes that were largely created by a staff that has turned over almost completely since then. We ran off some people - maybe that's the uncharitable way to put it, but this seems like the place for unbridled honesty - and in particular, we ran off some people who took a lot of other people with them at times, and formed competing communities that made Forge Hub's position in the Halo ecosystem a lot more precarious. I remember getting into dumb tiffs with staffers over infractions for a few things, and I'm one of the more easy-going people that's ever posted 4000+ times on this site, I think.

    In some respects, I think the current administration was charged with bailing out and patching up a ship that already had been shot full of holes by people who are, for the most part, not even here anymore. Failures on several fronts to keep up with the patching and bailing are worth criticizing, but it's not the whole story. And then, as Mick points out, we haven't always had the tools we need to keep up with the work. You can only do so much with a bucket before you start wishing you had the materials to just rebuild the damn ship so it will float properly.

    That said, my de-redification has nothing to do with any of this. As some people from my customs group know already, my life has just changed in a big way and my summer will be consumed with making that change happen. I'm still happy to serve as an orange guy and keep our forum, however quiet it continues to be, free of the worst troublemakers and trolls. But then again, I don't feel like anything I, or any orange guy, can do will fix the problems listed here. That's a bigger mess than any amount of friendly-but-rigorous moderating will impact. I'd like to see the site pull out of its doldrums; I'm not convinced that it will, without a major change that starts with our owners handing us the keys to the kingdom.

    EDIT: So apparently I'm NOT an orange guy. That was not a requested demotion, nor do I have any idea what the incentive was for that. Feel free to include that in your mental calculation of whatever the hell is going on around here.
     
    #14 Nutduster, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  15. SecretSchnitzel

    SecretSchnitzel Donald Trump
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    This right here is the biggest issue to me as to why FH died off. Between self serving staffers and their respective cliques, over zealous moderators and a genuinely unfriendly community towards critical feed back, this place drove a lot of forgers off to different communities. Myself, I hung about at Blueprint for a good while helping Homeboyd with his CC shizz, but eventually settled down at THC's Forge Forums, despite my shaky relations with most of the forgers there... But at least unlike here, my feedback on maps was much more welcomed and on plenty of occasions, actually heeded when the generally reaction here was to spurn me. The same goes for a lot of other forgers that have come to avoid FH like the plague.

    It's good to see that the staff has gone through a major overhaul here, but that's not to say it's much better than it was previously. But hell, what can ya say? It's a fan forum for a video game. Not exactly something to really take serious, ya know. I know this may came as a shock coming from me, but people really need to chill out about everything. It's just a game.
     
  16. Insane54

    Insane54 Ancient
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    The current situation is very unfortunate and sad. I really do hope to see FH bounce back somehow -- good luck, guys!
     
    #16 Insane54, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  17. Dax

    Dax Mhmm.
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    I'm sorry but I just can't let this go. Tz, I'm not trying to be a **** by calling you out on this, but why would you do this without at least talking with Nut beforehand?
     
  18. PandaMan

    PandaMan Ancient
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    Well ****....

    I don't really know what to say, other than thank you for the effort.

    Best Wishes.
     
  19. Zombievillan

    Zombievillan Ancient
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    Wow, this is sad.

    Idk what to say really. I've been here since Foundry and I'll still be here when FH takes its last breath. I've noticed as well, it's just really dead here now. I'd like to check out other communities but I just can't give up here. Most of the people I knew so well are gone now and staffers I was friends with are gone and everybody seems to dislike them but things were going smooth back then. Idk what happened between then & now except H4 and a few people turning their backs on each other. It's just terrible to think about how great this community was in H3 & how far it's gone. Really sucks man.
     
  20. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Ancient
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    My hat's off to Audience and Nutduster, you two are the reason I even stayed at FH and the reason Curb Stomp even existed. Best of luck to you two! Hell, if you ever start up your own Forge site, I'm down. You guys ran customs every week and that weekly server was like 50% of the forge driven community here and really made a difference. Hope I was a help while it lasted.
     
    #20 Fenix Hulk, May 21, 2013
    Last edited: May 21, 2013

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