So you agree it will happen. Now it's an assumption to consider that nothing bad will come from it. I think the way MARS ONE should think is to predict it will happen and what they plan to do about it... which is nothing but training them in their eyes. You can't just train somebody on this aspect, you can't. So they are just hoping it won't happen by selecting who they see best fit and give them all the training we can possibly give them. That's a failure at best. Hoping a space rock won't penetrate the craft is a failure. They need to predict this **** will happen and what they plan to do about it. On this level of operation, you can't leave anything to chance and that's apearently what you expect them to do?
...didn't I just say can is not the same as will. I like how your opening sentence directly contradicts what I said. Oh I see, you interpreted the parts after "you only operate on polar extremes" as me saying "it will happen". I was mimicking your statements ( which I thought was clear in context, but guess not) Also I don't know what any of the rest of that response meant. As you said, people can't be trained to live in an isolated environment for many years (at least not trained well). Why do you think the people behind this wouldn't take steps to prevent mental health problems? The way you describe it is like the people would just show up, be launched into space, land on mars, then be completely forgotten about with no contact from any smart person. There would most likely be mental health experts, scientists, all manners of smart people available to monitor the mars colony and the inhabitants of it. As I said before, it is not a guarantee that this is a for life trip. Are you suggesting people can't keep their **** together in the time it would take to make a ship capable of going to mars and back? With all the options available to them while there? If so then man do you have a downer attitude of human spirit. Basically your argument hinges on the concept that even with semi-consistent communication with Earth, people would still go nuts because they couldn't physically touch or be with people (which you think would be a pretty apparent concept going in to such a thing) and because of that such a thing shouldn't be tried? Even if our technology was way more advanced and we could send people to and back in like a month the same concerns would still exist. The colonists would still be cut off from main Earth society in most ways. The only difference being the return possibility seeming less bleak. But if they're true colonists then that wouldn't be on their mind anyway since the point of colonizing is that you build a new home and cut yourself off from the old one.
Everyone understands that if we start populating Mars that we will eventually have the ability to send people back to Earth, but... will it happen within our lifetime??? That's an assumption, a very big one. I already told you i know everything you mentioned will happen, training, monitoring, etc etc... I already stated it brother. Doesn't mean it still won't happen. NASA even says it is there #1 concern and their #1 factor they can't control like they do with everything else. The human factor is the biggest threat. MARS ONE isn't as sophisticated as you all are making them out to be. They're only worth $70,000 right now, everything you said won't happen with 70,000. A reality TV show won't 'fix' this either. It will add a lot but no where close to the amount of funding they need for testing, designing, engineering, etc etc etc. They are not NASA but they are backed up by them and other experts, this project is only an idea at the moment.
I would want to go to just experience a different planet and how cool would it be to be the next Neil armstrong "First man to colonize another world" but I would only go if I was going to step on it first. (everyone only remembers the First!) But I'm not applying because I'm not a fan of commitment and committing your life to that is just to much I have trouble deciding if i want toast or cereal for breakfast. If there was fast internet with good computers, good food, some cool guys to hang out with and a decent amount of hot girls and a way to get back to earth i would do it. Despite my individual feelings on this, for humanity it is like our first step to colonizing the universe so someone has to "take one for the team" I reckon they should send baby's to mars so they could live a good life there except they wouldn't have any attachments or experiences of earth to miss they would just think that's normal, Might sound inhumane but i think its more humane then sending adults who have attachments and reasons to stay on earth that they have to sacrifice to go.
I think the part about sending infants is a good idea because, as you said; they have no attachments they won't feel depressed etc... But another point you brought up there is the question; is it humane? I think not. The children will be deprived of a "normal" life and they wouldn't even know it. There is also the problems of you will still have to send adults with them(babies can not take care of themselves) good point that you brought up but I don't see people buying into that one.
But who is to say what kind of life is humane or not, In medieval times in history people lived in poverty and used urine as medicine and stuff like that and in future people will probably have a better quality of life and consider our life's inhumane-ish and people have varying quality of life on earth atm. If there raised on mars and that's all they know and they enjoy living there as much as we enjoy living on earth I don't see a problem with it been inhumane. (They would probably even think people living on earth have been deprived of a "normal life on mars") I don't think they will actually send baby's to mars just to many what-ifs would be good if they could though imo, Humans are going to colonize other planets sooner or later(if we don't all die somehow) consenting adults that are going to do it will be fully aware of consequences and the choice that they made to go nothing inhumane about sending willing consenting adults imo. Sure its going to be subpar quality of life but its there choice and they value exploring/mars/planets/space travel/History making/whatever there reasons as more important to them then subpar quality of isolated life on mars, I wouldn't do it(because of reasons i gave before) but I'm not going to impose my values onto them and I respect anyone willing to risk there life to go to mars.
That's a great concept, but who's going to look after them on the way? Sending infants is a bit wrong yes, but again, taking one for the team is what people must do. There's going to have to be some way of keeping the babies alive and educating them. I think this is why they're after younger people, as they're functioning human beings where as babies would have to learn everything from scratch. Bit of an odd thing, but maybe send adults with the kids, then get the kids to pro-create later on.
Sure it is, but it is a likely assumption to make. If we have rocket engines that can get us to mars in 6 months now (they technically aren't built yet but we know how to make them) I don't find it hard to expect better engines that can get us there and back in less time in the next 50 years. It would take even less time to just do 1 way there and 1 way back by sending the materials needed to launch from Mars (it would take a lot less fuel to leave Mars atmosphere than Earths) The "human factor" would exist in any situation. Again, that isn't a reason not to do it. I'm not saying it shouldn't be considered a concern, nor taken lightly, but human error is an issue that has existed for a long time and hasn't stopped us from doing new things before.
Then those teams of engineers and warehouse bays, etc etc on need to be on Mars as well. You see all that happening with the next 50-100 years? Actual launch pads constructed, and everything needed to repair, refuel, rebuild? It's not like to just send some supplies an whamo, you got a refueling station, launch pad, space craft warehouse etc etc. That **** will take 500 years to build with crews as small as that on Mars in the next 50 years. Assumption out the wazooo! Shits not going to happen bro, for the first many crews, it's a one way ticket, you're dying on Mars... if you make it there. Edit: Quoted from Mars One: But Garriott is apparently on board with the basic outline of the Mars One plan. "I think the people who go to Mars first ought to be settlers," he told the BBC in February. "To get people back off Mars is harder than getting people off of Earth, because it’s another world. Maybe we’ll start bringing people the other way in a hundred years.” Source So who's making extreme assumptions? lol, you should know that any gameplan gets delayed, especially due to lack of funding and/or technology. I would actually make tack on another 100 years to that as well. If this project actually takes off and becomes successful +Plus I never said anything about "Human Error." That's a whole other ballgame and impossible to fix, lol. The 'Human Factor' relates to the fact that we are not machines, we're not invincible, we have emotions... that's the human factor.
Pardon me if I'm wrong but it appears that you don't think we can come up with the technology in 50 years? Just about 70 years ago, the first computer came about, it was massive and could not do much at all. Now we have phones that fit in our palms that can do 100x more then that computer. although i am not arguing that it IS a one way trip(they already said it was) but things change and a lot can happen in 10 years and a lot can change within 50 years, I don't understand why you are not even attempting to open your mind to the concepts that people are saying.
Just came to say that while some heated discussion is cool with me, there is no need to be belligerent about it. I'd rather not hand out any infractions. Carry on.
Where did I say technology? Do you know how long it takes to construct such massive things with a very sharp attention to detail and knowledge. The first crew only consists of 4 guys... 4 guys! You really expect them to achieve, know-how, and construct such a thing in such a short period of time on a new planet with a harsh environment, different gravity, and in suits...??? really... How do you know the structure layout and support scheme on a different planet with a different atmosphere and gravity. I guess the astronauts just need a tool bag and they're good to go. Think about all the mass amount of supplies needed to build such things, power sources to power the tools to build such a thing. Plus you'll need all the required machines/vehicles to build it and knowledge on that. Guys, think about what you're assuming. ------------------------------------ Quoted from Mars One: But Garriott is apparently on board with the basic outline of the Mars One plan. "I think the people who go to Mars first ought to be settlers," he told the BBC in February. "To get people back off Mars is harder than getting people off of Earth, because it’s another world. Maybe we’ll start bringing people the other way in a hundred years.” Source That's still very impressive, to say the least. More like hopeful thinking.
Let's go into detail about this since some of you think I'm being to close-minded about it, shall we: By 2033: MARS ONE plans on having 20 settlers on Mars. Not engineers, not mechanics, not architects, settlers. People only trained to populate Mars and trained with only the skills to survive on Mars. Technology Let me quote MARS ONE: "Mars One has developed a realistic plan to establish a settlement on Mars by 2023. This plan is built upon existing technologies available from proven suppliers." source So, you can't assume they are going to use w/e your imagination wants to come up with or ideas thought up by 'experts.' There will be no magical transformer ship that flies to Mars, lands on the planet, and transforms into a launch pad or w/e. These structures will be built by current technology in conditions with no experience of building them in. Right now they haven't even built the necessary items yet b/c funding is only at $72,000. What they do 'plan' to build is a lander, transit vehicle, launcher (not one for mars, it is a disposable launcher designed to get the trasit vehicle off Earth and into space only), Communications System, Rover, and Mar's Suit. That's it. That picture you guys see of the Astronauts' living space bubbles and things on Mars is only concept art to make you think it's already been fully planned out, but it hasn't... at all. So even 20 years from now, and that's if everything goes perfectly planned, which it won't, still no attempt has even been made for returning these people back to Earth. There goal is to populate Mars, not a 'Tour of Mars.' ---------------------------- On another note, FOX NEWS made a funny of Mars One a year ago, here it is: Mars One plans suicide trip to Red Planet for 2023 | Fox News'We will send humans to Mars in 2023. They will live there the rest of their lives.' - Mars One founder Bas Lansdorp I'm pretty sure you will sign a contract. Sign your life away here: _____John Did Good__________
You missed a truly fantastic amount of zero's, http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/664158main_sls_fs_master.pdf the development of this will certainly set a new standard for the world, so development isn't that far off.
I was not in ANY way saying that they were going to build anything on mars, that was an assumption on your part. as for the astronauts not knowing how to fix their stuff... How are the astronauts prepared? - Mars One
Then what was this quote targeted towards? (the one below) What exactly did you mean by it? No where does that link say the astronauts will be trained to build such things. They will be trained on the skills needed to survive on Mars, that's it. Where you going with all this? What's your point? And throwing me useless links I already have does you no good b/c it doesn't even relate to what you originally said. I know they will be trained on the stuff needed to survive, including small repairs. That's child's play compared to what we were discussing. I said they would not be able to fly back due to not having the structures, mechanisms, tools, and supplies to build the required things to fly back. How did you prove me wrong? By saying they will be able to fix minor mechanical problems? Dude, do you know what it takes to get one of these 'transit vehicles' off the surface?
I didn't see anywhere on there that this craft will be able to land on a planet and take back off. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing special about it is the amount of cargo it can carry and the distance it can travel. When talking about a space craft, one part is a launcher (to get you off the surface and into space, very powerful rockets), the space transit thrusters (moves vehicle through space), and landing thrusters (if the vehicle wants to land, it will need to fight gravity). All 3 are meant for a different purpose and all 3 are constructed differently. In order to take back off, the vehicle/space craft has to set up just like on it's Earth launch with a spare group of launcher rockets.
No. Unless Mars One execs are such great conmen that they've fooled both SpaceX and NASA into helping them. Also the company is a non profit. Whether their goals are realistic or not is debatable and we've been debating it, but it's not a scam.