You thought about what I had to say in a short-minded way. Have you served your country in any way? You can't screen sanity and what will happen to this normal person after being in isolation. no way you can screen for that. You can 'train' someone in all the pre-thought needed skills to survive but how do you train someone for something we never done before? How do you train someone how to stay sane...??? You can't. You're short-minded and took what I said in that context and assumed that's what I meant... "simply strapping them in and waving goodbye, lol." really dude.
You didn't read the part where I said they'd put people through years of training did you? My mum has been through all of the NASA astronaut training and I didn't see her for a year and she's been through all kinds of different scenarios where they test you in critical situations to make it absolutely certain that you're not going to freak out when you're up there. Studies have been done up in the ISS, people have been up there for ages and there's not been a single story about someone going nuts.
Sanity of the crew is a concern but it isn't the foregone conclusion you're making it out to be Fenix. Part of the proposed training is to live in similar living conditions as faced by the mars trip including being on a 40 minute communications delay with the outside world. Obviously some things like radiation, decreased gravity, meteor strikes, etc can't be simulated as easily to train in but NASA does all right training astronauts for situations we can't mimic all that well on Earth. Also...what does serving one's country have to do with anything? While tough living conditions and high discipline training might come with having military experience that doesn't exclude all other people from candidacy in such an endevor. It certainly helps, but it's not a barrier. And you're right, people can't be trained for something never done before or for situations that aren't conceived of but that's isn't much of an excuse not to do something. If it were then literally any pioneering activity wouldn't have been done. People can be trained for whatever conceived situation might arise and in thinking critically to deal with new problems and such training can be very effective if done right.
wOW Oo... years of training... no way. I thought more along the line of a few days would suffice? It has nothing to do with the amount of training or 'freaking' out. It has to do with isolation for a lifetime. They can't train you on that by putting you through a scenario. NASA even put a crew through isolation in a very small space for a very long time and the crew did good overall but that's still not isolation for a lifetime. Subconciously they knew they were being watched, monitored, and knew that it was only a test and it would eventually be over. On Mars, what is anyone going to do if someone loses their mind? To ignore that risk is pretty stupid. You must train as if it probably will happen and how to react to it. However, prevention through 'years of training' is impossible. There's probably only like a very small percentage of human kind that can take on the challenge successfully only b/c it is the way their brain works. Oh yeah, just b/c you say your mom 'works for NASA' doesn't make your argument any more tolerable. Really? Do I need to challenge this? Really? Let me quote NASA on their overview on the Mars mission they were planning way before MARS ONE. "The greatest test of the human mind will be the projected almost three-year manned mission to Mars and back. Mental breakdown, sexual tension, near-suicide and mutiny have already taken place on shorter Earth orbit and space travel missions. The Achilles’ heel of the Mars mission may be the human factor. "
He said he wanted to do it for a higher purpose, my question in that regards was > has he even made an attempt to do so yet? he said he applied... sounds kind of silly to me. I expect someone who is actually serious to have actually served their country, people, planet, in some way that would motivate them to actually sacrifice their life in such a way. It's pretty obvious, ain't it? On the next note, how are they training for people to stay sane? Are these by 'scientists' with a PHD or people who have been through such an experience themselves and understand the situation. -------------------------------------- Here's someone else's take on Mars One and how it is a joke. “The Mars One team lacks the expertise and knowledge how to approach such super-ambitious programmes,” he says. “Just simply recruiting and maintaining such a large astronaut corps is well beyond their capabilities, not to speak of launchers, habitats, spacesuits etc. Having big players like SpaceX on their back certainly helps, but there is no indication these are doing it for free. That means that even large TV companies won’t be able to afford such a multi-year programme, not to mention the challenge of keeping the public interest going for such a long time.” Jonathan O'Callaghan Source Mars One is nothing short of pre-mature and technology is not ready. Get people to live on the Moon first and don't just jump into something so drastic. Baby steps, baby steps. On top of that they have only recieved $72,000 in donations, LOL. (They need billions, not a few thousand) This is a joke, I feel sorry for the idiots that sign up for this. Source
Just thought i had to change the tone from this whole space marines concept to something a bit more grounded (in truth). we have been quite successful in training people for extended missions, however our records for maximum time in space remain from the 50's, and held by crazy burly Russians. also interesting; http://www.3news.co.nz/Mars-experiment-marred-by-sleep-woes/tabid/1160/articleID/282411/Default.aspx
You can quit being an asshole about this now, yes my mother has trained to be an astronaut thanks. Just because someone hasn't served for their country, it doesn't mean they're not up for the job.
I want to go into astrophysics, but I would never go into space. I'll respect anyone who puts in the effort and possibly sacrifice themselves for the body of human intelligence, but the only way I'm going into space is if we have to leave earth. I have a fear of nothingness, like being in open water and not being able to see land, space would **** me in the front lobe.
I get what you mean, Fenix... psychotherapists can teach you everything about what it means to be isolated on unnatural territory for 40+ years, but even psychotherapists or the most intelligent expert would actually know what it's like, and how to deal with those problems. sure, we know how to fix problems on Earth where there's 7 billion people to help us but we don't know until we go. All I know is I wouldn't be able to take it, and my guess is the average human would be overconfident. After all, loneliness is one of the, if not the worst thing that can happen to humans.. Mainly because people will always rationalize themselves over others, we're biased and we'll do completely irrational things in order to maintain our own inner sanity, even if it means insanity to most others. What I think. Feel free to disagree, but please don't bash.
Seems like the first intelligent response on here from me . I think you could be even a psychotherapist and still faill to control the mind b/c the mind in extreme conditions ultimately cannot be controlled I think. Many people call it the 'animal' side, but this part is pre-written into your brain usually from genetics and early childhood experiences. People will become depressed, lonely, and isolated. These emotions will only grow worse and worse with time. Who knows how the laws and physics of a new planet will effect this. You taking an Animal (we are animals) out of its' natural habitat and putting it in a cage. Even in prison you get much interaction with other cell mates and cellmates come and go. And in prison the environment is controlled by guards, bars, and chains. On Mars, what will happen to you if you break the law... this is ultimately 'your' planet to control. If you take charge, you rule the planet. That's got to **** with your head as well. You can't say these astronauts won't have disagreements, you can't say no one's going to lose their minds. You can say that nice and comfortably here in our 'perfect' environments on a planet our bodies were designed to live on but not on Mars where you will be living in a very claustrophobic suit and very small bubble for a house the rest of your life. You'll never get to experience a nice shower again, a good ****, a Sunday drive on your motorcycle, meeting a new girl/guy to fall in love with, Sunday morning church session, relaxing on your couch, walking in the rain, a good drink or smoke, having a pet, shopping, or pretty much anything that makes you human and feel alive. Say goodbye to your family, wife, kids, girlfriend, or anyone you ever cared about for you will never see them again, ever. I really don't think everyone will know what they gave up until they get on the spacecraft and reality starts to set in. It's all downhill from there. I would trade a mission to Mars any day for a free life to feel and be alive. Another question to think about... Are they allowing women to become pregnant or are they 'fixing' all men/women before shipping them off. If not, I bet you the first chick is pregnant before they even get there. How do they expect to handle that? Also to note, have they thought about new diseases, plagues, viruses that may exist on Mars? They did find bacteria on the once ice shelves. Who says these astronauts don't get infected by something and it kills them all? Here is a good read that can easily be related to what the Mars One crew may go through. Effects of Prison "Prisons are often the scenes of brutality, violence and stress. Prisoners are faced with incidence of violence and are always concerned for their safety. A long-term prisoner named Jack Abbott had stated "everyone is afraid. It is not an emotional or psychological fear. It is a practical matter. If you don’t threaten someone at the very least, someone will threaten you...Many times you have to "prey" on someone, or you will be "preyed" on yourself" (Tosh, 1982:86). Prisons aim to cure criminals of crime however their record has not been encouraging. Instead prisons do more harm than good. The pains of jail confinement affect all prisoners in different ways. To begin with the prisoners need to withstand the entry shock by adapting quickly to prison life. Prisoners are exposed to a new culture, which is very different from their own culture. Then they need to maintain outside links. For example, keeping in contact with family and friends becomes frustrating. While being in prison the prisoner must determine his/her way of passing the time since the hours appear endless (Tosh, 1982). For some prisoners the major source of stress would include the loss of contact with family and friends outside the prison. There is also the fear of deterioration. There is lack of personal choice within the prison environment which many effect prisoners. After many years of being told what to do they may well lose the ability to think for themselves and make their own decisions and choices freely (Tosh, 1982)."
You're also making a lot of assumptions here. Again, while the state of mind of the crew would be a concern (as it would be with any prolonged, mostly isolated thing), it's not the 100%, people will go insane thing you're making it out to be. First of all, while the crew wouldn't be able to do instantaneous communication with Earth, that doesn't mean no communication. Messages to and from loved ones could still be sent in radio waves. Second, unless we invent terra forming technology by the time they leave, the astronauts wouldn't take off their suits to be exposed to any kind of foreign bacteria that could cause illness. Food would be grown in hydroponic farms and the living quarters are all clean, sterile environments. Any germs capable of causing illness would have to be already present among the crew or introduced due to unsanitary conditions (toilets breaking, crew not cleaning themselves, that kind of thing). No one's denying it would be hard on any person to live so far away from society but again, without some people taking those risks, we wouldn't have the current level of understanding of our world today. I agree Mars probably isn't the best place to start with this kind of endeavor, but the same issues you bring up for why this wouldn't work on Mars are just as apparent for the Moon or hell any isolated location on Earth. That isn't much of a reason not to do it or try to do it though. That's just an excuse to make sure it's done right and carefully.
The only one who made assumptions here is you. I meant actually see your family members, hug, hold, kiss, see face to face. Figured that was obvious. Messaging them is no where close to that. How do you quarantine from bacteria when you have no idea what you're dealing with? Your suit touches the air and then the suit goes inside your home. The excuse not to do it now is the time ain't right and technology isn't that far along yet. Plus the funding ain't even there. They only have $70,000 so far. That ain't even enough to cover the 'years of training.'
Throughout history people have put themselves in exposure to harmful substances, isolation for extreme periods of time, all in the name of scientific advancement. I get your point about family but these people will know what they are committing to, and i think you are underestimating that by the 20's-30's, once several backed organizations have all (hopefully) shown their commitment to space industry (and Mars being the logical step forward in that regard), there will be options for these people to travel back. The trip time is 6 months, so there is plenty of opportunity in the future for continued missions. Additionally, when talking about psychological problems, you continue to use these modern day examples of western 'healthiness', however when talking about mental stability i would argue that the continued search for truth and beauty, providing a secure future for humanity and being part of the small steps that introduce our species into a new era of exploration and expansion are far more powerful tools in keeping someone 'sane'. JWST which will launch in a few years is the most expensive optical telescope funded by US, and will fall into an L3 orbit half a million miles away from Earth, beyond all form of rescue and repair forever. Now you will hopefully remember the issues that Hubble had from manufacture and that was just put in orbit around Earth, requiring two trips up to make repairs but also improvements. Now if you think that we are too far behind on the technology for a Mars mission in the next decade or two, then logically you must think we are even further behind today, where we are sending out real, risky missions with many undetermined factors (L3 orbits will have many unknown obstacles). And in terms of the financial support, did you miss that Pac said it would be a reality tv show? I wouldn't worry about financial support.. I mean how much effort would it take them to make a huge flyer for some sponsor and stick onto the Martian surface for eternity.
They're all one-way trips. No returns. Once you're there, you're there. Didn't they make that clear? A spacecraft needs a launching station, a refueling point, and ultimately rocket pods to be added back onto the space craft. plus I'm sure there will be needed repairs, a lot of repairs. I'm sure a 4-man volunteer crew can tackle that. Maybe the Martians there can lend them some fuel, rocket pods, and needed supplies for repairs. Lol, only billions of dollars to design and make the most sophiscated and advanced equipment known to man. Yeah, a reality tv show will sum that up real easy, lol. That's a joke. Some people won't even care while others will eventually lose interest. If you make them pay to watch, it will be even less beneficial due to less viewers. Many will be interested at first like any new thing, but even people got tired of hearing US soldiers dead on the news so they stopped announcing it. How sad is that, you really think this is any different? I myself probably won't even watch it b/c the whole thing is a joke to me. You guys are the ones making assumptions, not me. I'm basing my argument on real life, not assumptions that somebody has this all figured out and everything is 'A' OK. Plus do you not remember the rock that hit Russia just a little bit back. NASA didn't even see that thing coming, how safe do you think a craft to Mars is. Even NASA will admit the craft WILL get hit, hundreds of times a day by small particles that would put small holes through engine blocks. There is no air resistance in space. They cannot know of every material each object consists of, or the speed or size of the object. They can only make the most advanced shielding material and hope for the best.
Truly, then if your arguments are based on real life, why is it you take the media view on practically everything, as opposed to a reasoned objective view as some of us have tried to enlighten you with. I made it clear in my first post, that spacecraft don't 'refuel'. They have intended lifetimes and then they will be discarded. There is a reason why explosives are still used for the hundreds of mechanical procedures that need to be activated on a spacecraft, and that's because chemical reactions are the most reliable solution to get something done, and once that job is done, the components are redundant, and if they can, they are ejected or removed to decrease the load on what's left. You also missed my (our) point about how this is an investment over the next few decades, that is already gained the attention of Nasa, the european and russian space agencies, as well as the five private contracting agencies working in partnership with Nasa to provide future spacecraft, will provide a reliable safety net for any of these reality tv stars, should their Mars base be overrun with underground zombies. And the meteor that landed in Russia was 20 meters wide, so it's a pretty easy thing to miss in the hunt for mile-wide chunks of rock, and for the rest.. They cannot know of every material each object consists of - spectroscopy or the speed - radar size of the object - triangulation
You're not opening your mind enough. They pre-build the armor on the space craft right? It cannot be changed once flight has begun. So they cannot build a shield against anything in space b/c we don't even know what is all out there. They build armor based on a max speed, max object size, and only earth based materials. That's it, any changes to that and there design is broken. BAM, that's what I'm talking about. It's not like, oh ****, here comes this small space rock at a billion miles an hour that is the size of a pea and will put a hole all the way through our ship because it is made of this bad ass material. "let's switch out our spacecraft skin here real quick, hold on space rock of doom." I based your Reality show on News and that people will grow bored, do some research like I have done and even Mars One is worried about that. Funding will die off and they will need another source besides donations and a reality tv show. Your also talking about **** that hasn't been invented yet, Sure, people have theories and design ideas, but no funding and no way to test these theories. **** don't exist yet man and you can't assume that their theories and ideas will be flawless.
You're making assumptions about all people's state of mind in an unknown situation based on similar examples of mental health in isolated environments. That makes them well founded assumptions but assumptions all the same because you're assuming what will happen. You didn't say people "may" become lonely, depressed, whatever. You said they will. That's the definition of assuming something you don't know for certain, regardless of how likely that assumption might be. Everything I've said so far has been speculation or information right from Mars One's FAQ, such as the training conditions, communication possibilities, etc. I've also never claimed to not be assuming things, unlike you. you're also assuming the money won't be raised. Again, that might be a likely prediction based on current tv viewership trends and money earned but since televising Mars training has never been done before no one can say for certainty that it won't make the money it needs. Also I'm not buying the "I thought it was obvious" nonsense you keep throwing out. Nothing is obvious to other people who don't think like you because they aren't you. When someone says someone is isolated it usually implies completely isolated, as in zero communication. Your prison example was flawed because the analog you were comparing this too was being in isolation with zero outward contact. No study has proved the mental health of prisoners have deteriorated due to exposure to other prisoners (not being isolated). Being able to see and talk to loved ones is a much bigger deal than you're making it out to be. Yes people would rather have physical contact but that doesn't mean people would go insane without it knowing their loved ones are a 4-22 minute delayed call away (depending on where mars is in relation to earth.) As far as one way trips, now and in 10 years that might be the case but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be one way for life. If people can be sent to mars than so can payloads of materials that could be used to construct boosters, fueling stations, etc. All that would take time but if there are people on mars it would expedite technology to meet the needs of those people and get them back home. (and yes, that is an assumption, but I never claimed I wasn't making them) All that being said I agree with you with most things. I don't think we're ready to be sending people to mars in such a scale and I don't think this Mars One endeavor will ever get the money it needs to do this but since we're mostly discussing the prospect of living on mars and not just the logistics of getting there I think living on mars could be done and without the dire consequences you seem to think are absolutely bound to happen.
I wouldn't go off anything off of the MARS ONE FAQ's... they won't admit any flaws b/c it is all propaganda and they need to make themselves look as professional as possible to get those donations. You have to look at the experts around them. You seriously don't think no one will become depressed, lonely, regretful in any way, have cravings, tension, stress? You really think that is just crazy talk? Interesting.
That's nonsense. The information we have to go on for how the applicants will be trained, the facilities they plan to build, and the specifics of the trip can only come from the people making the thing happen. I'm not quoting mars trip success statistics or amount of money gained or numbers of backers which could be impacted by bias statistics reporting to gain hype. Also the difference between you and and me is that I acknowledge it can happen (which I've said numerous times) while you only seem to operate on polar extremes. It will happen. Mars One won't work. There is no leeway there and it makes you seem cynical for the sake of being cynical as a result. Yes, people can become depressed, lonely, or develop mental issues. Can is not the same as will and as soon as you stop talking in absolutes like you know how the universe works and all people inside it the more productive these discussions will be.