Remakes VS Originals

I think one of the big draw-ins for map remakes is the fact a lot of maps become special to players as they play them online, and when a new game comes out and the map isn't included, there's like a hunger for the good ol' map with exciting new gameplay. Part of it is when they don't put an old favorite in a new game, forgers mentally go "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" and it's exciting to see how different forgers try and recreate the classics. Now I have no problem with originals either, I love getting creative with Forge. But there's something about the familiarity of remakes that gets them the attention in the forums. People see the title and go "Hey! I remember that map, I wonder how they've remade it."

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

Remakes are okay, but they better be really accurate, beautiful, and modified to work correctly in Halo 4 to earn my respect. As for four-way symmetry, do you mean that one line of symmetry can cross horizontally, another can cross vertically, and two more can be placed diagonally? I think my map Clung fits that definition, and yes, the gameplay can become redundant if it is not done correctly. By the way, if anyone was displeased by it and assumed I will make more of its kind, you will be happy to know that my future maps will be one-way symmetrical and asymmetrical.

 

I don't believe members should expect one thread to recieve more attention than another simply because the former contains original content. Members may not have access to the original, or perhaps they simply wish to experience it in the most recent installment of the series. Either way, the fact that the content of said thread is unoriginal should not deter members from offering it more attention that others should that be their desire. That said, I imagine these threads are recieving more attention simply because members have prior experience playing on the designs being remade and thus are able to offer feedback beyond what they see in a couple of screenshots. It only makes sense that they would rather comment on something they have prior knowledge of as opposed to something they have only just seen. In the end, unless your maps are the second of Hayden Panettiere, you're going to have to make members aware of them through play testing should their threads being overshadowed become a recurring thing.

I don't think four-way symmetrical designs in general are getting old, but instead those that lack any innovation. The same goes for two-base designs, honestly. That is just my opinion, though.

 

Lets take lockout. Everyone loves lockout. Why? Cause they have played it forever. And when you have played something forever. It grows on you. When it grows on you. You want it back. When its not back you complain. The great thing about Halo is it gives you the option to recreate those maps through forge. That is why people do it. And that is why they get views. Cause they are back from the glory days of H2 and H3 that people have been playing since the beginning of time. Kind of a "long live the king" mentality.

Also without the use of preview pics on the thread. You need a real sexy ass name for your map. Also a recognizable name which is achieved through being a common member on the site.

 

Being guilty of two remakes in Halo 4 myself that I have posted here to the forums, I have a tendancy to agree with your original post, why do remakes get so much attention over originals? For me, the remake is equally as challenging as the original. Example: Relic Island was a remake of Relic from Halo 2, yet many people on here, including some of the staff, never heard of it. They started Forging in Halo 3 or Reach.

So, for me to remake it, means they get to see it for the first time. In Halo 4 style. But the ones who know it from Halo 2 are the toughest to please, they remember all the intricasies of the original, and are not afraid to post when it does not look right, which generates many postings on on map as opposed to an original.

And, quite possibly I am also guilty of not having the creative skills to come up with something original that does not copy some map I have seen in the past. This aspect is very important to me! I do not want to use your design on my map, even if it is something small. There are so many talented Forgers such as yourself, that create wonderful new maps and SHOULD get all the glitz and glamor that any remake does, i completely agree, however that is not what seems to happen here all the time.

I am certain that one of these days, I will make one, that no one has ever seen before. When I do, I too will hope to steal the limelight away from the most current remake being fauned over on this forum. Until then, I gues I will keep sharpening my forging skills on remakes.

 

I like remakes because some maps are a lot better than the current game, but some are WAYYYYYY overdone, eg Lockout and the pit. Now what I don't understand is why there are a million ACCURATE remakes of each of these and people are still today making more remakes. That's what gets me, not necessarily remakes themselves.

 

If that is the case, then I agree with your opinion. Gameplay is redundant from all perspectives, and map movement is difficult to enforce.

 

I think that's because a very large majority of Halo 4 players are not aware of sites like these, and then just create whatever they feel like, not knowing what has and has not already been done. People search this site when they do stumble across it for words like "remake" and do the same on the fileshare itself. They see a map name they recognize and then download it.

It's the concept of something "going viral". A thing needs a certain threshold of popularity before it goes viral, and then once it does it takes off on its own. Remakes are just easier to get over that hump with. They also generate lots of attention because the inevitable debates that ensue in the threads about whether the map is truly accurate or not, or whether a piece should be shifted over .1 units or not. Lots of views result in lots of downloads, usually.

I think remakes are fine, but remakes made by those who already know how to make good original maps, will be far superior.

I think we all need to play more custom games too, and try to spotlight great original maps that we have found, and to showcase them more than remakes.

 

I think Aubs is right here. Also, inb4 xzamplez.

 

I dont understand it myself. There is only one H3 map that I thought could work in Reach, but otherwise, they never work due to the game mechanics. Shutout, for example, is clunky, fat as hell, and looks nothing like the original. It has lines running in all directions creating visual noise everywhere you look. When you play it on H4, the DMR ruins it. And the spawning is a trap's trap. It is a terrible remake, but it is one of the more common remakes and it is considered one of the better remakes of Lockout.

 

I asked myself this about four years ago when I started forging. In those four years, I learned the explanation is human nature.

-Nostalgia: Playing a map they once used to play takes them back to the time that they used to play it. Everything in life is simplified when you look back at it.

-Laziness: They are happy enough with those past designs, that they don't find it convenient to search for a new, possibly better design. They know how the map plays, so they don't have to spend time to learn the layout or the strategy the map encourages.

Those are the reasons.

As for four bases: Like Auburn said; it's a matter of innovation. Symmetrical layouts are naturally harder to be innovative with, and the more lines of symmetry there are, the harder it is. But, I would definitely avoid making blanket statements about something as vague as a style of map.

 

Speaking of

and

...check out my remake of Halo 2's Foundation!

 

I believe that the reason why remakes get more attention is because people know how the remakes play. They remember how much fun it was playing that certain map and would like to replay it on a different game.

Original maps will be a new experience for players but since it's new to them, they're not sure if they will enjoy it or not.

This issue bugs me as well and I believe that creating an original map that appeals to many players takes much more talent than recreating an old fan favorite map.

 

It's all about install base. Remakes already have legions of fans at the ready to throw them praise. Whereas original designs still have that hump to go over.

Personally, I have no issue with spiritual successors, but do tend to dislike remakes. To me, remaking a map exactly is missing a golden opportunity to improve on an already fantastic design. Think about how Valhalla resolved so many of BG's nagging issues. But then consider how many issues Valhalla ended up having that Halo 4 could have had a swing at fixing. Instead, 343 gave us a 99% remake and called it a day, blemishes and all. Although it could be argued that said blemishes are what gave the map character.

So, spiritual successors that take the time to improve upon already great designs = good. Lazy rehashes that aim to capitalize on nostalgia, and fail to provide real substance = meh.

 

The correct term is Radial Symmetry. It means if you were to divide anything into four halves, all four halves would be exactly the same. Just for future reference for everyone in general and requires the minimal amount of creativity.

Symmetry means if you were to divide anything into two halves each half would be the same.

Asymmetry means the two halves would be different but still balanced in weight.

 

Nostalgia! Simply put. Everyone is trying to recreate that feel they had for a map. That being said, A R C A S I U S has an incredible Countdown remake, pretty damn accurate. Also, four sided symmetry is an easy thing to make, you build one corner and copy it three times. I agree its not the best type of map and is low on creativity but there is a niche for them too. How do you feel about 3 sided? lol