Aesthetic Pieces

framerate has so much to do with how wide of an angle is visible by the player(s). Curb-stomp doesn't have areas where you can see a gigantic portion of the map PLUS all the aesthetics, which if it did have this, might cause framerate problems.

rule of thumb... if you're going to include lots of aesthetic pieces purely for decor, then you can't include lots of pieces where most of them are viewable at once. If you pan around and only see a few items at a time, then there likely will be no problem, unless your block piece usage is already taking you to the framerate breaking point.

And then there is the issue of framerate being compounded by splitscreen games. Some forgers worry about splitscreen and others don't. I just offer the opionion that it is good to note in your map threads whether a particular map is suitable for splitscreen or not.

 

How are my textures so 'patchy' on the side of the buildings? You say the streetlights are barely noticeably (which I intended and that is because they are very thin) and yet you say they're distracting? Light Poles in real life blend well with surroundings due to being very thin. If Spincycle stated how clean my map is.

"Pretty much the above. It has the same "Fenix" feel I get from seeing the rest of your maps, and it looks rather clean. Now I really want to play in one of your lobbies... " -SpinCycle014

I don't understand as I made this map layout as clean as possible with the tools at hand. Please, if you have any tips or suggestions on making the map more clean, lay them on me for I will fix it and you're the first to tell me the map texturing is unclean and distracting.

That's a cop-out in my opinion. That is not hammering away at your craft and learning what works and what doesn't. Playing it safe is boring and brings nothing new to the table.

Do they add noise, yes. Are the 'Noisy,' No. I think there's nothing more noisy that some of the most basic layouts on very popular maps with poor choices for the texture of the geometry itself having a bunch of textured lines on them going in all directions. Now I'm going to use a few examples here to support my discussion as I'm not 'dissing' anyone here. (I already know some are going to take this the wrong way)

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Here is 'Serum' by Noooooch




Notice the amount of noise created by all the lines and mixtures of textures. Even though the geometry is very simple, there is a lot of noise created through the texturing. As for aesthetic touches, you couldn't get any more basic than placing one prefab'd Large Turret Display Monitor. I understand it serves the purpose as a jump up location by aesthetically it is distracting to me b/c it doesn't go. The map is an arena style map and has no other theme. You can't just look at this map and think anything else. So why add a computer? It is distracting b/c it stands out and leaves you wondering why it's there. I would of continued the theme of arena feel and just added a bit of geometry sticking out (like a small edge piece) that wouldn't distract you.

I love this layout and many people love this map. I'm not saying it is any less than an epic map. ...but, in my opinion, it is very dry, boring, and lacks character that would be seen in any professionally designed map.

With no real theme or aesthetic touches, the only thing the player is allowed to look at is the very meshy, ugly lines of the textured blocks.

*Also note that all the geometry in the picture displays nothing but 90 degree angles. The benefit of this is staying clear of mixing textures but creates a very boring atmosphere by making noting but boxed shape rooms. There are ways you can create a much wider range of angles, you just have to use the rights blocks with the right textures that don't make ugly meshing.

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Curb Stomp by myself



Notice how well all the textures flow on the map and display movement in the direction of the geometry. Look at the street, all lines follow the road displaying movement down the road. Notice the buildings, all lines go straight up and down displaying vertical movement. The box textures on the walls can almost represent windows. Notice the textures on the far bridge with the underlying tunnel as all of them are horizontal and display horizontal movement in the direction that 'bridge' moves.

Enough on textures, let's talk about aesthetics here. You say my aesthetics are very noisy. The only aesthetics here I have is the stop light, vehicle block posts, railings, billboard, bus stop, and a window shutter in the top right. All of these touches serve to better gameplay, fit very well with the theme, are not distracting, and are not noisy.

> The stop light serves as a small break in LoS down a long street. It is the only direct cover on the street and does not overcrowd the street, being a small aesthetic touch.

> The vehicle blocker posts are self explanatory and don't block direct LoS, nor are the distracting b/c they go very well.

> The railings add very little noise and flow with the natural geometry. You don't even notice them until you look in there general direction. There's quite a few firefights that start on those platforms and railings are very helpful in keeping you from falling off in the heat of a shootout but allows thrown grenades to pass through, benefiting the platform itself.

> The billboard serves as a strong reference point and quickly tells you what side of the map you are on. It is high enough to not hamper gameplay or add much noise and the design is very clean. The shield is also placed in a way that it is not to bright to be distracting but bright enough to be noticed and quickly identify the color.

> The window shutter serves gameplay by allowing a 'backboard' for players (in front of the building) to bounce a grendade off of and into window, making it land right where a enemy player would be standing in the window. They do not add noise because they're barely noticeable and is the only aesthetic touch to the side of the building.

> The bus stop is actually out of view when looking down the street which doesn't create any noise and is not distracting. It serves gameplay by allowing a way to seek cover from the platform above and the ramp next to it. This very slight advantage is very short lived by the player.

I'm not disagreeing with you on how to many details can add to much noise and be distracting but I do strongly disagree with your opinion about the aesthetics on Curb Stomp being to noisy or distracting. The map is very clean and with the small touches that I mentioned above, the map would be dry, boring, lacking character, and would give the player nothing to look at besides a bunch of textured lines.

 

@Fenix, indeed, I think we agree on the issue.

I have never said do not add street lights. What I have tried to say is that the basic structure of the map is more likely to be so noisy visually that why bother with the street lights.

I completely agree with your assessment on visual noise on the maps you pointed out, except the last one. The last one has a lot of visual noise through out, especially in the background of that pic.

One of the key features to reduce noise is to use the same blocks through out. I don't see that on the last pic you showed us. I see the large brace mixed with other blocks. The large brace stands out of place. The side walk on the left side of the pic is different from the right side, and is interfered with by the big block that partly covers over it toward the back of the pic. At first it looks like a side walk, but then it doesn't, which makes it look like just a bunch of blocks - noisy blocks. In the end, I think it is safe to say that you cannot forge a good clean quiet map on Ravine. I honestly do not know what the good folks at 343i were thinking when they came up with those skins, but I saw one sample before Halo 4 was released and I warned then that if they are all like that one sample (and they are), then it would be very bad (and it is).

I won't forge on Ravine, because those blocks are beyond help. Impact has some soft gray details that do not stand out crazy, though some blocks on Impact are like glaring black on white (I avoid those).

 

I'll explaing my reasoning about textures choices here shortly, but I have a lobby to run right now.

Also, this next read is directed to the overall forge community.

I couldn't agree with you more here. ForgeHub 'veterans' or I like the term 'trolls' are all about shutting down new and upcoming members who are trying to bring something new to the table. I have grown so much to really start hating this community for the amount of negativity and lack of creativity and imagination.

I understand you guys have experience in forge but I'm looking at this from a much, much higher view. When I think about designing a map, I'm different from most on here. I think about maps I could make with an actual map design program and then I think about how to make it work in forge. Most people on here think about the map templates in forge and the objects themselves and how they can make a map out of them. It's blatantly obvious in box shaped rooms and maps that are designed around the dimensions of the blocks themselves. Where is the creativity in that? That's not hard either. Thinking this way is only limiting yourself and 'playing it safe.' Plus, you'll only ever be good at making maps in forge and not in a real map designing program.

Real creativity comes from people looking at things from a much higher view like I said before. Thinking this way allows so much more options and a way to really beat on your craft as a map designer. Simply beating down on these guys trying to achieve this is very upsetting to me (no matter how good their attempts are). I think it's part jealously really, because they are achieving things you thought impossible b/c you have left your mentality to 'playing it safe.'

There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism as long as it is constructive. Saying how, I like your intention here but it may look better if you switched this out with that and used this here. But simply drowning out the idea of making forge better is lame.

I am currently going through a 3-year program to design video game environments professionally and I have never met so many negative people in a community that only bash on people's work rather than helping them. Everyone has to start somewhere, and people have different amounts of talent, but the mindset here is very poor.

I may be close to being done here as it is a waste of my time that I could be dedicating towards my professional career.

 

Well, I don't know how I came across being negative as I am just trying to point out what I think one needs to consider... Would you prefer I just be quiet and not share anything?

And I said what I wanted to say. What do you think I didn't say that I wanted to say?

 

I said that was directed towards the FH community as a whole, not you. I did notice you editing your post and gave helpful information which I do appreciate but disagree with you on some things and limited to forge on others. I'll explain later in greater detail. Thanks for the feedback green, that last rant was not directed towards you, was already typed up before you posted and I was just hitting on kaddict's point.

 

Leaving FH doesn't sound like a bad idea... Perhaps I should....

 

I only just joined a while ago and I'm already considering leaving again, too.
I mean seriously, I get twice the feedback on almost any other forum I post my maps on, even on a minecraft forum's off-topic section :/
People here seem to only want to comment on what they like or what they hate, what's in between usually gets left with 0 replies, and this can be extremely discouraging to any new forgers who think nobody likes their hard work. I know I don't post in every thread, but that's because I simply don't have the time to do a lot, and even though most of you guys probably don't have seas of time either, we could all still try and make this forum a happier place by making everyone feel at home.

Anyways, breaking away from my off-topic train of thought and going back on-topic:

Break the rules of forging, try new things!
Do what you want cause a forger is free! You are a forger!

 

Fenix, in future, please don't mention other peoples' maps and call them bad and compliment / advertise your own maps in random threads. Thanks.

@OP:

If you can make your map look good (note: subjective) and have no noticeable (key word) single-screen framerate, then good for you. The only thing I would advise not doing is adding pieces to your map solely to change how it looks. If it doesn't affect how the map plays in some way or another, it probably shouldn't be there. Of course, substituting pieces for others that look better (all subjective of course) is all good.

 

Even though I agree with you on this, Fenix has a point with what he's saying.
If he just didn't name maps / authors and just used the screenshot and pointed out things in it it'd have been fine by me.

 

Still someone else's map / your map. People will know whose maps they are and will find things like that rude.

 

...

Well, if it comes across as rude, then perhaps we should forge the maps ourselves so that we can take pics of our own maps to demonstrate our point...?

 

Really Spin? This is the exact crap I'm talking about. Where did I say his map was bad and mine was better? I did not use the screens in that terms and even mentioned I thought his design/layout was epic. Guys like you here completely disregard all points, know the intentions, but create unnecessary negativity to environment. If you actually read my post you would understand. Stating stuff like that just irritates people, makes them have to write up this unnecessary rant, and by the time we get around to the point at hand, we don't even care any more.

I gave credit to both maps to the authors and chose the first screenshot off both map's threads to use for comparsion. I only used them as a reference to discuss the points at hand. You come into this thread ignoring that fact and just calling me out like I'm an asshole for saying his map sucks and mine is awesome.

 

Every off-topic discussion is hereby completed. Either get back on topic, or this thread is getting locked.

 

Again.
This grows so far off topic. This is not becoming the decision thread for "Should I leave Forgehub.. Or perhaps not?"
A simple question is asked, but answered in complicated answers by most people here. (Some not of course, you know when it is not you.)
It is so easy sometimes, but you guys become hostile against each other.

 

Back to topic...

As I said, adding artistic forging to the map to improve a sense of immersion into the intended theme is very good. But as I tried to get across earlier, it does little good if the map is artistically trash to begin with due to the visual noise inherent in the blocks themselves.

In other words, yes, add the artistic forging elements, but keep things in perspective.

I be done with this topic...

 

Regarding the initial question, are you referring to maps that have simple yet appealing aesthetics, or those that are simply ugly? Sorry, my comprehension skills are apparantly too poor to understand your ambiguous remarks. Nevertheless, if the latter is what you happened to be inferring than the answer is yes. It's a given, quite frankly.

 

I don't see why this is a discussion in the first place. Think about gameplay first, and add aesthetics up the point where it doesn't affect gameplay. And when I say aesthetics, I mean things that look artistically good, not the 'noise' that people have mentioned above. That's all there is to it.