Hey guys I've recently got into making urban themed competitive maps. Now these are fairly rare for some reason and not many people make them. To me they look beautiful and play very well if designed properly however I do have some reservations. In your opinion guys would you rather play on a plain map that is really simply? Or would you rather play on an equally simple map but with alot of aesthetic features? (which dont take away from gameplay). Im talkying things like street lights, traffic lights, advertisement signs etc... also if these sorts of aesthetic maps were designed with gameplay as the main focus but with these aesthetic features, is it possible for these maps to be considered for matchmaking? I only ask this because all maps considered for matchmaking have a really plain and typically "halo" look to them, however the most recent map packs have all had urban themed city maps... opinions? p.s. dont say "yeah theyd look cool as long as it doesnt take away from gameplay" thats obvious im talking about the aesthetic features being there for the sake of being there to liven the map up a bit and if these maps could make it to matchmaking.
It's personal preference. You're not going to do anything completely new at this point so just make the map the way you would like it. There's no way you can do this on a map without affecting framerate so I don't see why you're asking.
Really? See for yourself And again (no framerate issues with these, I think most people just lack creativity, imagination, and talent)
Well, my opinion is that whether you have street lights or fences, or billboards, etc., is not as great of an issue as the blocks themselves. Take a look at Fenix' links. In both you see the blocks add visual noise. No street light, billboard, fence, etc, is going to make that look pretty. It is noisy. The noise has to go first. And that is the big problem with Ravine's palette... In other words, I think you, like many forgers, have your focus incorrect here. Get the image of the map to look clean and quiet. It would go a lot further that way... Most community maps in MM look very noisy... Simplex was one of the worse... Everywhere you looked on that map nothing but lines in all directions.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CMlK5ju3f...ader-i-find-your-lack-of-faith-disturbing.jpg That is all. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Do you have the most recent map pack? Those maps are very aesthetically... complicated... and the skybox goes to further that but they are a crap load of fun... One would argue that the forge pieces are too simple and that we should be encouraged to be a bit more creative?
Yes, and I am not certain what you mean by complicated, but I don't think it is the same as visually noisy. They don't have the same confusion of lines drawing in all directions with colors that really don't go well with each other. Skyline uses a beautiful palette of colors together. Landfall looks very naturally cohesive and again the lines don't stick out at you like noise. The other map, the tiny ugly one, I don't like it - it is too dark and misty...
Well I don't think many people like all the colours... to me it makes the map look like a playground... but I was referring to maps like what fenix has brought to us, I have created a map with a similar sort of theme, it is a very simple layout, but has a few aesthetic touches to add to the realness. What I was asking essentially is do people prefer real looking maps or do they prefer simple plain box maps. I must admit I am a bit confused on what you mean by blocks causing noise... Realistically a spartan is more likely to be fighting in an urban themed city rather than in a pointless arena with a few protrusions from the floor acting as line of sight blockers...
*facepalm* I've been around long enough to know a map is ten times more likely to have framerate issues if the author claims it doesn't. To make decorations noticeable and effective first requires making a clean map by overlapping textures and such. Doing that increase the object count such that it's pretty difficult to avoid framerate issues even without adding decorations. Fenix, I wouldn't have seen the street lights and such if I wasn't looking for them and people weren't camping on them because the background textures are so patchy they're hardly noticeable. I'm sure it's better in-game, but in that case those things tend to be more distracting when not done properly. I guess I should have specified that the size of map matters. If you're making a 1v1 feel free to put in all the decorations you want because you're unlikely to get framerate issues. 2v2 maps are not much of an issue either. I assumed you were going for a larger map since anything smaller than 4v4 with an urban theme ends up being too large or poorly proportioned.
I agree with Mr. Green and Pyro here. A map should be clean and quiet. That way any small aesthetic touches you add really stand out. That maps layout should speak louder than its aesthetics. Aesthetics have their place. Without them your map can be bland and forgettable. Too much, and they can detract from gameplay severely. Finding that balance is difficult especially with themed maps because they rely on aesthetics to create the the theme. Play it safe and keep it simple. Thats your best bet.
I think you're all missing the point of my post. If the map layout is great and simple and gameplay is great blah blah blah are aesthetic features that DON'T AFFECT GAMEPLAY but add to the theme of the map a worthwhile addition? Do we prefer this? http://i.minus.com/i0mc5gQnmpJTo.jpg OR DO WE PREFER THIS! http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/7MANCHESTER/ironclad/Templeredesign_zpsb3d84df0.jpg omg.
The layout of the first one is terrible while the second one is at least halfway decent so I definitely prefer the second.
That question comes down to personal preference really. Personally, I prefer maps that display a subtle, coherent theme of objects and shapes as opposed to one that sacrifices that to incorporate realism. That said, neither of the two samples posted have that element frankly.
it's conversations like this that show me how horrible the halo community can be at times... it's so obvious you are all talking about different subjects as if it were one subject. visual noise is a separate issue from adding asthetics to a map which is not noisy. separately, an "urban" themed map should be visually noisy, as a typical city is not all built at once, and designers of separate buildings do not necessarily coordinate their efforts so that they all look the same or have similar features. piece limitations are also something we are up against. a forger who wants to do something very very different, is limited by the fact that they want to use a particular texture to make things look less noisy, but can't because that shape doesn't come in that texture. it's all about balance and I find it hilarious that certain people are hell-bent on pointing out obvious things about maps such as visual noise on an urban map. no duh, really? If you COULD do it for an urban map you'd add dirt and grime, wouldnt' that add to the noise and clutter? Sure. Would it be pretty? Nope. Is it supposed to? NOPE. people in this community who I respect are those who are lending a hand to help either directly or through advice. Calling maps "horrible" is not pertinent to this dicussion. The example that ARCASIUS posted of no asthetics probably isn't his best screenshot of a simple design. He wasn't posting it for critique. It was showing an example of a simple, clean design with no aesthetics. The fact that someone would call it "horrible" is just trying to put people down. I have no respect for that. As for me, yes aesthetics are a must and those plain looking, even if visually clean, maps are very boring, even if they ahve good flow and gameplay. Congrats. You made a fake arena look like a fake arena. But can you make it look like a real place? That is what some of us artists are trying to do with forge. Combine the two. I applaud Fenix and ARCASIUS for being able to do this with great skill.
Fenix Hulk's maps always look real nice like Curb Stomp. I love aesthetic touches. That "Bacon City" destroyed city map by Pol Wah is really inspiring with all the details. If you guys haven't seen it, check it out. It's a flood map.
Thank you! Finally. I thought I was going mental or something. One would think the point of this thread was plainly obvious... maybe we should all buy minecraft. We sure as hell won't have the "noise on blocks" problem anymore.
I tried playing Minecraft but I just get too bored. It is a cool idea but it seems way too time consuming and after you build something... what else is there to do with it? stand around and slap each other?
I have tested Curb Stomp a lot and you can ask any of the testers who would agree with me about no frame rate drop. Since all authors lie about their maps and all. -Kazerra -basketskate3 -El Trocity -o Urban Myth o -xAudienceofone -TMR Legend -Katanga -LEE C G You can also 're-state' your argument but this quote is very false especially considering most maps on this site are 2v2's.
All things being equal, YES I would add them... My lengthy posts before was to simply point out that I would add them to a map that was cleanly forged. If the map was visually noisy (lines that stick out on the skin of the blocks going in all different directions), then I would reforge the map first to address the visual noise.. Look at the maps on those two links. They both have visual noise running every where. I wouldn't want to add any street lights to either because they only make more noise. I would address the noise first.
Curb stomp has framerate issues? I didn't know that.... JK. It has never had framerate issues and Ive tested it from the beta to present so hell Ill say that this statement "Since all authors lie about their maps and all" is for sure false.