I think it encouraged people to leave early b/c everyone got atleast one game in so it's like sloppy seconds for the second run. Recap Recap Recap Recap Recap
Currently and slowly, finishing up Interchange and started a smaller, non-vehicle sized, 2v2 version of Interchange.
The lobby really was a lot of fun but i think Hulk might be right, people (including me sorry) ****ed off after their first map. The plus side was that the last people to sign up (including me lol) got a game a bit earlier than usual.
Yeah, it did seem like we had earlier abandoners than usual, but I wasn't quite sure if that was because of the new format, or because it was a Sunday night. I'll be back with map feedback later today, as usual.
Most of the feedback - little more coming later on. Vandelay by me - I don't know how you guys felt about it, but I liked how this game went and think I might just release the map. Well maybe I'll test another gametype or two first, but this was just the kind of fast-yet-competitive CTF game I had in mind when I made the map. The layout is obviously simple but I think it plays fine. I may tweak one thing structurally on each side to make the bottom level more inviting - I used it but I didn't feel like a lot of other people did. ONI Station by TMR Legend - As a Headlong remake (albeit a scaled-down one), this looked pretty damn good to me. I'm not very familiar with the original - I played the H2 version just a handful of times, it really was too big for my LAN group back then, and I also only got a few games on the Anniversary remake of it. But I definitely recognized this as Headlong and the forging was good, with some of the landmarks of that map quite clear and well-made. As for gameplay, there were a few issues. Mainly my ass hurt from all the power weapon abuse! If you keep two rocket launchers, you need no more than 4 shots per; it seemed like there were 6, and I got killed by rockets just an incredible number of times. Same may be true of the snipers - if there are two of them, you may consider just 8 shots per. I also think the gauss hog is too abusable to work on really any map, though nobody ever did anything truly nasty with it this time through sheer luck. If you want a power vehicle, the rocket hog is probably a better choice. Overall, the downscaling made this about the right size for 4v4, but you have enough heavy weapons and vehicles for all those people to have a 1-shot-kill capability at all times, which I felt detracted from the map. Even if it's not true to the original, I'd be really tempted to go with one neutral rocket launcher, two snipers with reduced ammo, and a more controlled vehicle set as well. Would love to playtest this again after adjustments. Windswept by CyborgAnthro - I quite like this map, as you know, but this was a crazy-fast CTF game. The route from flag to flag is very, very short. Suggestions for the gametype - 1) 5 captures to win; 2) Short reset time; and maybe 3) different flag locations, though I have no idea where those would be. Archway by AnotherClaymore - This was a really good example of how a few modest tweaks can make a big difference in how a map plays. I'm increasingly impressed with this. It's still pretty open and shooting gallery-esque in the middle, but if you use positioning and the map's geometry smartly you can get some things done whereas last time, I felt like going out there was just begging to die. It also helped that the sniper positions are far less fortified and campable, and the new sniper location encourages using it in other, less dominant places. Unfortunately my team played zero flag defense so I don't think this was the best test for that gametype, but hopefully we'll run it again soon. Black Briar Manor Slayer by unrivaled20 - This went better than I expected based on the flood version of the map. But it did also still have some of the issues I thought it might have - mainly that the streets are very deadly places to be or move through, and the buildings (particularly the crucial middle one) are quite campy and close quarters-oriented. Berb's suggestions (ditch the mantis and really open up that middle building) would help; I'd also like to see a protected path across the streets; maybe an elevated walkway? I don't know what your budget is like though. Payload by Fenix Hulk - Major improvements in all the critical areas... well, except the flag scoring zone. Ha! Otherwise I thought this was a great test, and the new initial banshee approach is so epic, it feels like Marty O'Donnell's music from one of the old Halos should be playing behind it. The new flag location is also a smart upgrade. For the gametype, I really do think forced jetpack starts would benefit players more than they might know. Or if you don't want to force them, build one in as a loadout so they can choose it, if they don't have a jetpack loadout already. // The regicide game was fun as well. I hate FFA regicide though, I am just the master of racking up the most kills and losing at the buzzer. Purlieu by iArkitek - This had a really nice, unique design and the upstairs corridors had a good mix of protected and vulnerable that is quite hard to nail. The centerpiece area was beautifully forged as well, one of the more attractive things I've seen on Erosion (which is not a very attractive forge-space or palette to me). The game went pretty well, except for framerate in the middle being so bad that it actually interfered with my ability to shoot people. Hopefully you can fix that. Based on what you said about the budget, you'll probably need to reduce object count by quite a lot. I'd aim for getting the budget down to 8000 or so, and total object count to the area of 300 - if you go much more than that, the map really needs to be a big one so players won't have all those pieces in view at once. Radiant by Juanez - This game was fun, dude. I do think spawning in shield doors on the top mid walkway for this gametype only would be a good idea, because otherwise that last zone will NEVER be extracted. If we had been locked in a 2-2 tie going into that last area, I think the game would have been doomed to end in that same tie. Salvage by me - I found the new bottom boundaries to work better. Upstairs didn't really change, but I was heartened that people were holding down the ship (I figured that would happen) and that flag routes became a lot more varied, with runs around the outside and to the bottom as well (also figured that would happen). Berb didn't seem crazy about my crazy hippie map design (ha ha ha) but what can you do. Did anyone else feel like they spawned downstairs too much, or that spawning down there was problematic? I spawned there a few times but all the spawns are deliberately less than a sprint's distance from the teleporters or the big lift. If it seems problematic though, I can throw a weak anti zone down there so it becomes more of an emergency outlet spawn area, which is really the intent. Also, how are the binaries working out? Too powerful? I could go with beam rifles instead if it seems like they'd require a bit more skill. Grotto by TMR Legend - The Lockout in this map's DNA was evident to me, though after you mentioned it I can see a little inspiration from other designs as well (especially Ascension/Pinnacle). I didn't find SWAT to be the best gametype for it, honestly, but I don't really like SWAT so I'm not a great judge of that. But what I dislike about that game (camping, cross-mapping anything that moves) was exacerbated by the Lockout and Pinnacle-esque design where fortified positions are separated by a very vulnerable middle area. Moving around got you killed; staying put did not. But I guess that's SWAT in a nutshell. Apart from the gametype issues, the map was forged well, looked nice, and I had no complaints there; would like to play it on slayer or something to get a better feel for how it plays when you can survive a bullet or two. Daybreak 2 by CyborgAnthro - A fun map. Love the wars over the middle room, and I also love how you can run or fly around the outside to quickly flank people. The high 3x1 block catwalks were a nice touch, I used those a lot. The bottom area feels a bit cut off from the top to me; didn't use it a lot. Exiled Hero by unrivaled20 - Clearly this is a casual map, but I do think the high area is too dominating of a position. I had a hard time figuring out how to get up there and stay there, but once I did I just rained death on a bunch of poor souls who could barely fight back. Also, I don't care for the old timey FX; it's just ugly and distracting, IMO. Juicy is OK. Periphery by iArkitek - Pretty interesting map design from you again. The inspiration from Epitaph was noticeable to me; for a second I thought it was a remake until I started running around a bit and realized it was just drawing from the same well of ideas. I found the outer pathways played a bit more constrictingly than Epitaph's, unfortunately; I kept going out there because that's where the action was, but once you got there it seemed to be difficult to escape or move unpredictably, and they didn't offer the same vertical up-and-down qualities as Epitaph's outer walkways, so basically I would kill somebody (usually with 'nades) and then get killed by somebody behind me... rinse and repeat. The layout of the open middle was a lot more interesting and offered better gameplay, though it was quite a brutal place to be in for a FFA game! Congealed by me - I'm not crazy about jetpack on this map; it's so small that you can really circumvent most of the intended map flow by flying around, and with both guys on the other team doing so, I didn't get much out of this test as far as how it's "supposed" to play. Will have to run the Dust-Up gametype soon to see how that goes, because that's really the sort of 2v2 experience it was made for.
I’m impartial to the format, either or works for me, normally I would have stayed for the second round for sure. But as I posted in the lobby thread, I could only test for two hours due to it being Sunday night. I enjoyed the lobby last night, I was glad to see some maps that had changes from feedback and improved the player experience. I’ll try and comeback and leave a little feedback on each map later, after I can review the vids and remember which one is which. But my highlights were Vandelay’s central room and lift areas, the Boats new tower, IArchitect’s themed map (with the forklift) and the extraction map was also a lot of fun. (can’t remember name off hand, Radiant maybe?)
Vandelay – This was the first time I played this map, it was a simple layout that was easy to get the hang of right away. The central room was inviting place to escape someone tailing you or set up for a battle. I liked how the geometry around the lift looked, pieces in that area fit together nicely and conveyed that there was a lift there before seeing it, well done. ONI Station (Remake:Headlong) – I was stoked that someone made headlong for H4, and wanted to like this map. But I struggled enjoy this game as much as I wanted. The architecture was fairly accurate, the bridge between rocket spawn and sword building was particularly reminiscent of Headlong. And the ‘Defensive’ (on 1flag) Base was also forged well, you might be able to make an original map based on it. The framerate became an issue if you have a lot of the map on screen at once, coming from the attacker spawn it was very noticeable. Also power weapons seemed to be abundant, maybe just because it used to be a BTB and we played 4v4 but I’d scale the ammo down like other suggested or maybe stagger the start/respawn times so they don’t all spawn at the same time so often. Windswept – This map was high pace and quick action, great for ‘edge of your seat’ halo games. I thought it seemed a bit too crowded and would like to see a 2v2 test, might be better suited. It was fun and the easy layout made it quick to understand. Just because it ended so quickly I would try and find a more secure place for the flag, the center route makes for quick caps. (not always bad, reminds me of midship in this way) Archway – The changes I made included, adding limited cover to the ramps leading down to bottom middle, adding railings along the drop offs, removed the top level of Purple (Sniper) Base and added ramps from each side. I think each of these helped improve the gameplay, I still think it plays ‘bigger’ then I originally intended. Not a bad thing, just different then I pictured it in my mind. My maps seem to scale themselves up, I’m very interested to see how a 5v5 CTF game would affect how it plays. Like Dust stated our team wasn’t concerned with defense, so even though it ended in a 1-5 loss for us, it didn’t seem to unbalanced. (at least to me) Black Briar Manor – I overheard that this was a Flood map, seems like it could be good for that gametype. Slayer seemed to turn into ‘who camps the middle building wins’ and or ‘who spawns on the streets dies…quickly’ I did like the look of the map, there were very themed rooms and they looked good. But there were framerate issues when your outside, not horrible but noticeable for sure. Payload – I thought the changes to this map help the playablity greatly, the flag tower on the ship looked good and functioned better than before. I think there were more ‘ledges’ on the boxes in the middle of the ship, or I just noticed them more, either way I found it easier when not equipped with a jet back to still reach the upper levels. I also noticed the banshee spawn was altered, the new location works great seems more like a hangar take off then just sitting on a grassy field. Looking forward to playing this one some more. Purlieu – I really like the look of this map, I liked that not everything was ‘perfect’. The map had a ‘lived in’ feeling that this was a space that had another life before halo, says a lot about the work you put into making it look great. Hopefully you can work out some of the frame rate issues, it really bothers me with the limitations of the game stop great maps from happening. Next gen halo better have a massive budget and lighting balance. It played nice too, genuinely enjoyed the combat encounters I had around the map, well done. I’ll try and finish up tomoro… Radiant – This was one of the first times that I had fun playing Extraction, which says a lot for the map. Each of the locations were original and different from the last. I’ll be looking forward to playing this one again now that I have the lay of the land. From watching the video I’ll need to equip a jetpack, seemed to help quite a bit. The central bridge is well made and fun to fight over, not sure how to make it more ‘gettable’ for this gametype but battling over it is fun. Salvage – The look of this map works great, and I still like the two levels that have a lot of height between them. And the ‘segmented’ areas that are connected by the middle ship and man cannons, works good on CTF. It might not have ‘traditional’ paths but it’s one of those the more you play it the more you like it.
So this semi-TCOJ related news so I will leave it here. After what seemed an eternity, I will finally be getting internet hooked up next monday. I won't make any promises because lately I can't seem to keep them. But I will do my best to attend either TCOJ or FFC or at least be online next week! You may now rejoice.
We're full up (and then some) for Tuesday, but your ass better sign up for the next week. You damn dirty explosives-lovin' ape.
I'm thinking about making one major-ish alteration to Vandelay. Right now it seems like a lot of traffic stays upstairs and just kind of circles around the top; I want to make the downstairs more integral to the flow. So I'm thinking on each end, to the right of each base, making it so you can only go downstairs; the upstairs section facing toward you would become a balcony that you can battle against, but only access directly if you have a jetpack. On the other side (left of the base) it will stay as is. That will really alter the flow, so we'll have to test this out a few more times with various gametypes... that is, assuming it even works out the way I'm picturing in my head. UPDATE - Did what I just described and I have high hopes it's going to really add something cool to the map. I also added a weak anti-spawn zone to the entire bottom level of Salvage, and replaced the binaries with beam rifles... hopefully that map's about done now.
Vandelay - I was pleasantly surprised that a relatively small map could play CTF well without being too fast. Definitely felt like the game was a power struggle on the outer and upper ring of the map, personally didn't use the bottom level or the middle too often. Regardless, it played great, the game was close and intense, and the sightlines were split at each corner, so it wasn't too much. ONI Station - Being familiar with the old Headlong, this was a pleasant surprise, and it did harken back to the Halo 2 days. It felt a little taller for some reason, but it wasn't an issue, just something I noticed. That gauss hog needs to be replaced or removed, it was a bit too much on a map like this. I also heard the other team had issues with the power weapons, so you may want to take some suggestions on that as well. Windswept - Very quick CTF games, don't know whether is was lack of teamwork on the loser's part or the map itself, but the map's layout was good I thought, it had segmented upper and lower floors so there was no cluster, it was evenly spread out. Archway - My first impression is that it seemed very open, but it actually wasn't; that being said I never just ran out into the middle as I picked off a number of people trying to cross that gap. Fights focused on the more secure outer regions, so the map sort of acted as a ring because of the openness of the center, with is a good thing for CTF so the round are not too short. I thought it played well with CTF and in general it was fun. Black Briar Manor Slayer - Very cool map here, thought the center building looked sweet. The spawning buildings were decent but sometimes confusing. The rockets in the closed moddle were a problem though, as Nutduster scored a quick triple kill after picking them up from their safe little spawn, so you might want to move it elsewhere. Vehicles felt overpowered as the majority of played flocked to the center, and since the divide between the bases and the center was so big, the mantis can lock down a team. Basically tone down powerful aspects: weapons(rockets) and vehicles(mantis). Payload by Fenix Hulk - Very cool map, liked the whole banshee infiltration theme, although in our stupidity our team got our banshees skyjacked and the first couple minutes were a mess of confusion. But the game got rolling and even though my team had a hard time getting past the other team's defenses, in the next round the other team breezed our flag to the cap zone only to find the cap area was not set up properly hahaa . Played great and looked great, nice job Fenix. Purlieu - A couple things I noticed on this: 1) Red team got a nice hold on blue team, but I came to the conclusion that Red Team played better than Blue team, not the map itself's fault. Killzones were intruding into the map, and have been fixed. Framerate was a new issue this time around, and I'm currently working to reduce the item count. Other than that the game went well, with combat more distributed throughout the map than previous games. Radiant by Juanez - This was a crazy extraction game, mainly because my team got pooped on. Definitely fun though, and the game was very competitive. The bottom level saw almost no conflict, however; I don't know if this was an intention, otherwise it was fun. Salvage - Cool concept for a map, thought the whole ship docked in provided a very interesting atmosphere. I was skeptical whether or not the severely separated upper and lower floor was going to be and issue, but for the most part it was fine, but if a flag was dropped down there it was a lost cause, a DMR or Binary Rifle would pick them off fairly quickly if someone was defending from above. The game was very intense however; it seemed both your CTF games were down to the wire, and I have to say I thouroughly enjoyed both, this one a bit more because I liked the map more. Grotto - Didn't think SWAT was that great on this map. The main area was too flat so engagements were often on one axis, and spawning became a matter of finding the building opposite of the bulk of your team. There were too few routes out of the areas; I felt rapped going into one of the four sections. The railing were a bit high too, and while not an issue in slayer, in SWAT the other team can shot your head before your gun can stuck out above the railing, and it made for some frustrating trapping in the upper base. I can see this playing much better with slayer. Daybreak 2 - Simple and effective; I thought it was fun. Didn't visit the bottom level much in the game though, and the first half the action seemed to horseshoe around the map, until people began going through the covered center and the map changed pace. Possibly incorporate the bottom floor more, other than that is was good. Exiled Hero - The concept of these maps, shortening the default maps is always in good intent, but the outcome leaves something to be desired. The top positions were very powerful, and people on the bottom had trouble just getting to the teleporters taking them up; once they entered they became targets for the people waiting for them. Had those upper positions been eliminated and some of those pieces been uses as walls or structure, the maps would have been a fun little map. Nice concept, questionable approach is you were looking for balance. That being said I had a great fun of fun here due to the imbalance, can;t say the same for the other team though. Periphery - I was not expecting to enter my second test with 5 players, so I had to make a change of plans. Periphery is still a WIP; the map layout is not finalized, but enough is made to test it. I'll go into more detail when I post the preview in a few days, but it was designed for 2v2. That being said we played FFA Regicide on here, and I thought spawning wasn't the best. I need to redesign the map to give some safer and more seperated areas to spawn so that players down feel overwhelmed. The inside was good, the outside needs some reworking. Did save me a bit of time though now that I know some of the problems beforehand. Congealed - It was a nice, competitive 2v2 here. I felt the top floor and the bottom floor weren't very used, at least in my experience it seemed I went in a ring around the map, following my teamate(Nutduster)'s movement when I wasn't flanking. I didn't realize how to get up to the second floor, and all I found were the lifts after following Nutduster up them. The sword spawn was nice; looked great and definitely felt the risk; an enemy fell from the pipes with SAW in hand as I went for the sword. Overall it played well, but for whatever reason I felt disconnected from the top floor, possibly because I don't believe I was using jetpack.
Recap Recap I'm not going to review the maps this week. Have college work to do and if you wanted to see what I saw just watch your map's vid I posted. My favorite maps were Vandelay and Archway. Both of these maps are very familiar in design and work great for CTF. I could play a lot of games on both of these an not get bored. If I had to choose one I would go with Vandelay being my favorite map on here yet to be tested by me. It's perfect, a circle with a middle enclosed passage. It's simple but works epically. Love it. Three more map videos coming at you soon enough. I also added the video title images if you guys want to use them in your threads.
I got stuck moving my friend out so i wasn't online all day except for an hour. I should review tomorrow.
Thanks Hulk! I hope you like the revision I did tonight. It's not massively different but it adds enough of a twist that I'm very curious to test it again. The map flow should be a bit more pretzel-shaped now instead of just a relatively flat circle.
well. ummm ...hopefully people like untested mini games. Unless i get done with my new forge i am probably gonna test 2 mini games that may go horribly wrong
In the youtube video's title, it's spelled "Purlieu", not "Perlieu". Thanks a bunch for the videos man, mine and everyone elses.
Can't wait to test it out. This map is definitely built for CTF from the ground up like you said. I see Team Slayer being a bit of a camping fest. KotH may play well and Extraction. It's definitely flawless with CTF. Even after you get the flag out of their base you're still worried about that final stretch as they can hit you from the side doorway from the center and also flank you and hit you at the return point from the other side. I love it! Once you grab the flag all you can think about is that you know you're going to get hit somewhere along the way. I just love this map in so many ways that I may build a similiar map (if you don't mind, but it will be noticeably different). CTF is my favorite gametype and that has to be the best concept for CTF I have come across in halo. The size of the map is perfect for 4v4 as well. It's fixed and it's no problem. Enjoyed the maps.