There's a lot of talking about all kinds of things that "NEED" to be patched in Halo 4 by people, but really there are only 3 things I know of that actually NEED to be patched, and one has already been patched anyway. 1. The hole in the wall on Complex that lets players get inside the wall. As far as I can tell that has been totally fixed now. 2. Fine/Precision movement in forge. This is basically forge-breaking it adds so much time back to forging maps, so in my opinion it does NEED to be patched. 3. Zoom in forge. This one I'm less sure about being a NEED, but it is extremely helpful to be able to zoom in on objects while precisely lining them up together. But that's it. All this talk about other things like secondary weapons, nerfing promethean vision or the ammo perk, increasing respawn times, etc..., are not game breaking problems that NEED to be fixed. In fact, most of these things are just people's personal opinions about what kind of game play they enjoy. For example, I happen to enjoy instant respawns. I've played Halo since Halo CE came out when I was a kid, and ever since then I have always been wanting faster more instantaneous respawns so that I could respond to what I knew other players were doing in the game. The longer I'm not in the game, the less I know about what is happening where. I love instant respawns and wish they were even faster! Another thing is the plasma pistol as a starting secondary. I use it as a secondary, and think it works well for protection against vehicles. But it is just NOT as powerful as some people act like. I also drive vehicles all the time in BTB, and it is RARELY even an issue. I don't think most players even know a charged shot from it can stop vehicles lol. Overall, its balanced exceptionally well, because I feel like both ways of looking at that function correctly. If I'm using it against vehicles it feels effective, but if I'm driving a vehicle it doesn't feel like it makes me driving a vehicle pointless either. I still do lots of damage. But I mean we could go back and forth over things like those forever. The truth is, its our own preferences about how the gameplay should be for most of those things. They are not game-breaking problems because they are there by design, whether we like them or don't like them so much. There might be 2 or 3 more things that truly NEED a patch, like bugs and glitches, but I mean come on, some people are ridiculous saying game play type things NEED to be patched.
Sorry for what might sort of be a redundant thread, I'm just sick of seeing threads full of people whining about how parts of the game they just personally dislike "need to be patched" in their words.
Obvious post is obvious. Even most people who literally say "this-or-that needs to be patched" don't actually believe that, or their definition of "needs" is a bit different from what you are saying here. Lots of people think the boltshot is a big problem, but very few think it's really game-breaking. It does, however, completely alter how a whole lot of Halo matches play, in a negative fashion, so nerfing it or removing it from loadouts would be a good thing. Regarding the plasma pistol, the problem is not how it affects the average game you play today. The problem is what happens when you run up against a marginally capable full team, or even a bunch of randoms smarter than the norm, who have all chosen it in their loadouts. THAT is a big problem, because 8 guys firing EMPs around will abuse and destroy the other team's vehicles completely. Your final sentiment - "The truth is, its our own preferences about how the gameplay should be for most of those things. They are not game-breaking problems because they are there by design, whether we like them or don't like them so much." - doesn't work for me at all. Bungie and 343 both have or had a history of tweaking Halo's mechanics after launch, going back to Halo 2. Melee, 'nades, specific weapon performance, and many other things that were hardly game-breaking have been nerfed or buffed with great frequency. Arguing that Halo 4 is just fine as-is when it could be better is no kind of argument. Just my opinion of course, but that's what we're here to discuss, isn't it?
Well I think the Boltshot's charged shot is extremely difficult to use actually, and lots of players out there are just like me. Some of you guys are extremely good at using some difficult weapons like the Boltshot's charged shot, the sniper rifle, and others, and then when either those good players or people running into them scream and cry for those weapons to be weakened, the developer weakens them. Not because there was a problem with the game, but just because a few people whined so much about it. I wouldn't mind the Boltshot's charged shot being toned down, because I suck at using it and do bump into people good at using it pretty often, but I understand its how the game was designed. Its not a "problem" that "needs" to be patched. About the plasma pistol, that is completely unfair to say it needs to be weakened or removed from loadouts simply because you could possibly run into a whole capable team using it. That reasoning can lead you to conclude any weapon could be used effectively and/or abused depending on how you're looking at it. You enjoy driving vehicles? You will think that capable team is abusing an overly powerful weapon. You don't enjoy driving them? You will love it being effective against them when you got lucky with some other people good at using the weapon like yourself. Its totally subjective opinion. The plasma pistol is balanced. I know that its balanced because I like using it against vehicles, and I also like driving vehicles. I play almost nothing but BTB, and spend an even amount of time in and out of vehicles. So you say it needs to be taken out of loadouts or nerfed, while another person who doesn't like vehicles says it needs to be buffed. Its just your personal preference in this case, but I don't think you mean you think it "needs" to be patched to be nerfed anyway. I think you just mean you would like it to be a little weaker or not in loadouts. That would make me sad. As for Bungie having a history of patches altering game play, I feel certain its only because the Halo community has a history of whining about how game play things "NEED" to be patched. I think it intimidates developers when they see the majority of forums devoted to games complaining about something "needing" to be patched. If that didn't happen, I don't think things would be patched other than actual, real problems. The reason I feel that way is because I have never noticed Bungie patch something game play wise other than things tons of people just thought should be less powerful. And what is it with the Halo community always whining for things to be less powerful anyway lol? Man I want me some serious heavy duty life-changing power weapons! CE pistol, CE shotgun, Halo 3 spartan laser! That good stuff lol! I say instead of weakening the boltshot and plasma pistol, 343 should patch vehicles to make them tougher and make the scattershot and shotgun more powerful if we're going to alter that stuff lol!
Those 2 forge things are going to be patched, think they already said it. That isn't all that needs a little tweaking though. I certainly think the Banshee needs some kind of buff to compensate and balance it out, as in Reach it was overpowered and now it is underpowered.
I saw something somewhere( forgot where) but certian affinity said that lack of precision editing was an overlook and they may add it back via a update hopefully they add zoom in there too.
Yeah there are other glitches too, like someone mentioned above in their link. I've seen some odd one in Spartan Ops that put the enemies in the ground or something with only their weapons floating over the ground lol. Funny stuff. The Banshee being stronger isn't really a problem *needing* a patch, but I do agree with you because I fly the Banshee every chance I get on Exile, and usually get 5-15 kills with it. The problem with it that I see is the Banshee bomb being too weak against vehicles. Its a serious problem. It should not take 3 or 4 banshee bombs to destroy a tank, or 2 or 3 bombs to destroy a warthog. I don't think it really needs to take much more damage though. That honestly seems about right to me. Don't judge the banshee based off of Ragnarok though. The map design and the Mantis are the issues there. Ragnarok is totally open so there is no cover for the Banshees. They are shot constantly basically. Then you also have 2 banshees which destroy at least 90% of each other's health to begin with. And third, you have two Mantis's as if the other two things weren't enough of a problem for the banshees on Ragnarok. Its really stupid there are Banshees on Ragnarok in my opinion. I feel like Scorpions might work better, but with it being open I'm not sure, they might be unstoppable!
I am judging the Banshee off Ragnarok and Exile, the only two maps you can fly it (which sucks). The problem is not so much the maps as it is Ordinance Drops and Plasma Pistol loadouts, as well as the Banshee's Barrel Rolls being way too slow. Ordinance Power Weapon Drops totally changed Halo BTB so they need to fix the Banshee to compensate for that. You may get 5 to 15 kills.... but what kind of players do you get matched up with? I get matched up with players in parties and aggressive pros. If I get matched up with normal people yeah, I can get 5 to 15 kills with it. 90% of the time I blow up within 10 seconds. I mean come on...on Exile you got Gauss Warthog and Tank and Warthogs to dodge and 2 of those can kill you in 1 hit. The Mantis on Ragnarok is not too difficult to dodge if you just stay away from it. I agree the Banshee bomb needs a slight buff because every single time I blast a warthog I am lucky if it kills the driver but still leaves the gunner shooting me. I think if your Kill/Death Ratio is over 2.0 you only get matched with aggressive assholes... That is my theory for the moment.
Emphasis mine. You need to calm down. If your goal is to provoke a thoughtful discussion on this subject, calling the other side whiners who "scream and cry" is not the best foot to start off on. There is a benefit to listening to the better players on these issues, because the better players are the ones who abuse these things the best (in most cases anyway) and make life for others a living hell. Just give them time to realize the full capability of any exploit, and they assuredly will exploit it. Other things are just small-scale annoyances that could be less annoying with a patch. Why you want to curtail that is beyond me. Anyway, most any good player on this forum will tell you the boltshot is overpowered, and they either use it religiously because of that fact (I know I do) or they refuse to use it on ethical grounds. That should tell you something. It's a shotgun you spawn with, essentially. The charge is not that hard to master - charge time is less than a second. It's not remotely equivalent to charging a spartan laser, which does force some additional skill to master since it takes so long and is visible while charging. No - only the ones available as loadout options. If an entire team can have a single weapon, perk or AA, you have to consider the possibility that the described scenario is game-breaking. If it CAN be exploited, people WILL exploit it. I already find BTB annoying sometimes if more than three people on the other side use plasma pistol and I get in a vehicle; as more people realize how effective that is, more of them will start doing it. No, not quite. It's a subjective opinion on an individual level, but the mass of opinions from the entire player base are considered by the developer and weighed, along with their own in-house opinions, when they decide to patch something (or not). That's a glass-bottle simulation of democracy in action. Your take on it being "totally subjective (and therefore not even worth discussing or patching)" is simply incorrect. All matters of opinion about the game are worth discussing, and any of them is potentially worth patching if it would improve gameplay. Halo 2, 3 and Reach all played better and were less annoying after their respective title updates. Sorry, but it's true. You're not addressing anyone in particular with this, so it's hard to respond to it really. But personally I am in favor of not changing plasma pistol or boltshot at all - just remove them from loadouts (force magnum as sidearm unless you have the two-primaries perk, which I have no issue with), and put them on the maps as pick-ups or ordnance. They're great weapons, unless everyone has them. Which, by the way, is also true of all power weapons. Scattershot and shotgun should probably be buffed - they are underpowered now, especially compared to the boltshot, which (once you master the charge time) is actually more effective. Which is sad, since it's not considered a power weapon. It has a superior and more consistent 1-shot-kill range.
You're right. Nothing NEEDS to be fixed. By your definition, the things you've mentioned don't need to be fixed. What do you think of this statement: "Improve" is a better mentality than "Fix" for a company to have about their product.
Everything is a need while simultaneously being a want. I NEED precision movement to be fixed, To have better precision movement=True statement. I WANT precision movement to be fixed, To have a better game=True statement. Theory of relativity nothing is isolated all needs or wants are relative and defined by why you need/want them. Imo Halo 4 could go its whole life without anther update(except 2 more DLC's for cash) then Halo 5 can come out. Gamers continue to buy there games and DLC so its profitable for 343i and Microsoft to do so I don't expect or think there is a financial need for Halo 4 to be patched. (if not financial, what other incentive would Microsoft have to NEED to patch halo 4)
TLDR but just so you know, the hole in complex was patched weeks ago. (in MM variants.) (as well as many other map exploits that have also been patched.)
Needing, wanting, It's all the same. The two things that you say need to fixed, I could say the opposite. You think we need zoom and precision editing because we had it before. (I've made a ton of maps and neither have bothered me) We also had search preferences, more game types, and customizable infection options (Which I WANT, not need.) Alot of stuff has been left out. Yet the game continues to function fine. there are alot more than 3 things that could use fixing. Some modifications could be useful (e.g the new boltshot patch) but I wouldn't go that far and say it needs fixing. It could require modification, depending on the scenario. These forge fixes you want only benefit a fraction of the community. Not the rest. Instant respawns: Heres a short story. After getting a kill on Haven, I died immediately. I gave my instant respawn a tap. and spawned behind an enemy. After obtaining a quick kill I was awarded with a double kill. Does that seem fair to you? They could modify it depending on the map size and game type. And perhaps reduce the countdown to 2 seconds instead of instant respawns. But while instant respawns benefits you it angers many more. Things need fixing. They were prepared for this when they skipped the beta test phase. If something gains you a kill, It gives someone else a death. Therefore a fix would benefit only 50%. Unless it benefits all of the Halo community it doesn't NEED fixing. Personally I think the weapons are fine. Dmr is powerful but only if you get them in the head. The boltshot is hard to time. Some people are just more skilled than others with certain weapons. No need for fixes. And the lock on range for the plasma pistol sucks anyway. If you're getting EMP'd then EMP them back. All important weapons are unlocked pretty early. And the in-game pause menu lets you modify loadouts halfway through a game. So there's no excuse... Just my opinion. Don't be hatin'. Sorry for typing faults. My phone is not ideal for browsing. -TS
But it's not like the EMP is anything new... we just have better access to it. That was more specific to the weapons than the rest of the problems. If a map glitch is closer to your teams base than the other then the exploit is in your favour. Starting weapons that all players have may be overpowered. But if you have access to the same weapons then it's not unbalanced and therefore does not require fixing. -TS
/\This, the loadout weapons are fine right now, the scattershot and shotty could use some slight buffs, because as stated earlier the boltshot is more effective. If I have a power shotgun then I want it to actually be more effective than a loadout shotgun. Also, the thruster pack could use a small buff too, since at the moment its fairly redundant. Custom game options need to be improved, one-flag/neutral-flag CTF should to be added, Race should be added, GRIFBALL SHOULD DEFINITELY BE GIVEN A PERMANENT MM PLAYLIST, and there should be a Multi-Team playlist with oddball, extraction, slayer, race etc. THE FILE SHARE NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!! [/rant]
This is a flawed argument. There are two types of balance (well, at least two - can probably think of others, but let's go with these for now): 1. Balance between teams (everybody on potentially equal footing) and 2. Balance in the sandbox (weapons and abilities balance against one another, not so that all are equal, but at least so that all have their roles and none are so over-powered as to render everything else moot, or so under-powered as to be useless on their own) If you give everybody access in their loadouts to rockets and binary rifle with infinite ammo, your game is technically balanced in terms of #1 only. But looking at #2, it's incredibly unbalanced, to the point that the game wouldn't be fun for more than a few minutes, because all kills at all ranges would be instant, and the entire rest of the sandbox including vehicles would be obsolete. That would need fixing, because that is awful. Therefore, the question is: does giving everyone the ability to (at least potentially) EMP vehicles make those vehicles so non-useful as to ruin the vehicle-oriented BTB mode? You may feel one way or another about that, but you can't dismiss the entire debate just because "hey it's balanced."
I'd rather go the other direction. Maybe you're not as tired of getting killed by cheap corner-campers in this game as I am, though.