Yeah, Daxy Slayer is a nice gametype, lol. I feel bad for not playing Core (EDIT: LOL, JUST REALIZED I SAID KAZERRA BEFORE..) with Dax yesterday night, although he does seem to have things covered. I would like to play this sometime. [br][/br]Edited by merge: OK, I got a game on this with Dax. It plays better than it looks on paper. I actually liked the rockets on this one. However, I think one or two faster respawning weapons would be nice. Perhaps 45-60s sticky detonators near blue spawn and red spawn? Also, I would lower that 2x2 flat in the doorway so that it's easier to hop onto. Also, I would add a lift or tac jump in the red room so that you can get into that little window. Perhaps a bit of walling around that long shallow ramp leading from blue spawn towards rockets would be nice. That would allow players to throw nades + shoot rockets/SDs much more easily while giving some cover to the players so they don't feel so exposed. For that matter, same for the top red window. Also, perhaps widen some of those paper-thin walls so that they feel like they have substance and can be hid behind. More explosive weapons/nades could counter that, so the general effect is that of atmosphere.
re -"core second edit" I think I'm in the same boat as alot of other people here. I really want to like this map and it feels like if you could just tweak this or turn that it may become the next cool thing. Your going to hate this suggestion but it just so happens that the largest asteroid chunk between the two main asteroids is about the size of your central courtyard. Moving your map to that location will open up alot of new height variation options, while also stopping the map from feeling weird not being able to jump down to the landscape outside the play area. I feel that the courtyard area doesn't have enough access, risk reward or defend-able structures to justify it's existence. If you moved the map you could build it slightly on the edge of the asteroid allowing a fall point instead of your new overly extended sight line nightmare of a walkway. I would cut the walkway between the base and tower and turn the lower half into an L shaped ramp to the courtyard. I'm not sure where to go with the tower, maybe add a ramp that winds around the tower down to the landscape below. Thus adding 2 new access points to the courtyard and a 3rd (2 and a half access point back to the tower. I would also consider (same area) taking your original walkway to the tower, break it's ramp into a two stage ramp and switch it to broken cover. I know you aren't going to like this either but I would also recommend removing the energy coil thing and putting a few chunks of something (man made or not) in there to create real cover and character for your new space that will now be used for more than a quick door hop. Last but not least asthetics+ lighting. Break open your structures back wall, throw in some windows and/or some angles to the walls/ceiling besides square. Honestly, it's because it's peeked my curiosity that I bother this much. I Hope I'm just offering friendly advice and not pushing you . . . hard Good luck I'll check back soon.
I haven't posted on this thread in about five days now, so I'll try and cover everything. After reading this suggestion, I came to agree, so I changed this and made it true to your edit. I made some more rocks that completely blocked off this drop from the outside area. You can still just jump from the bridge to the outside area, although it's risky, you have to sprint, and you'll fall if you happen to get shot in mid-air. I may remove this if you think the jump should still be included. I put in more rocks. Lol, I went and did this. In fact, I remade the whole map and made slight adjustments. Fixed - I just lowered the walls by one unit. I tried this, but the floor pieces I'm using are 4x4. I made the walls thicker, however it made the rooms a square smaller in both their dimensions. It also produced problems with sightlines, measurements and lining up the connecting bridges - not to mention noticeable Z-fighting at the corners. Unfortunately, I had to keep the walls the way they are now. Why thank you! Also, you may have played an outdated map. I made all of the suggestions Dax posted and then forgot to upload the updated map to my file share. If you played on the map I initially played with Dax, it was outdated. This would certainly spice things up a bit, but do you want these in addition to the rockets? If so, wouldn't it become a bit too manic with explosions going off everywhere? Done. I put in a crate that you can jump on to get up. Dax actually put in a Grav Lift in his edit, so you both had the same idea. Unfortunately the lift stopped you from dropping down from the window without jumping, which is why there's a crate there. Agreed. Admittedly, in a playtest I had with a few friends yesterday I screamed, "They've got the rockets; get to the walkways!" because I knew the rockets would go flying over my head. They did. I stuck in some Cover, Crenellations to offer a surface to fire your rockets at. Mentioned above. It messed up sightlines and stuff, so I left the walls as they are. I'm prepared to make as many changes as necessary to improve this map. Hmm... I may consider this, but it'll be one of the last changes I make. I've already relocated the map once so I'm reluctant to do it again (lol) but if others think this'll enhance gameplay, I'll implement the change. The courtyard and extremely oversized walkway were implemented after I posted this map to ForgeHub, which is why they may need some tweaking. Regarding the courtyard - I see it more of a way to cut out some corners of the map instead of being an intended playspace. It is slightly risky to traverse across because you can be shot from the doorways in the buildings, as well as the Blue Spawn tower. However, I'll look into it further if I ever get more playtesting done. Regarding the walkway - it is a bit long... I might implement your suggestion of breaking it up and making it loop around to the courtyard, offering another entrance to the Blue Spawn tower. I'll have to do something with the bit attached to the Side Room, though, but I'll think about that later on. If I did this, I'd have to change the map name. I originally designed the map to flow around a central Core, so I'd be sad to see it go. I think you're focusing on making the courtyard an intended playspace that players would like to stay in for an advantage, however this wasn't my intention. If others raise the same issue, though, I will consider it, just like with everything else. I did initially think about this, but putting in windows would reveal the ugly back ends of the Large Braces I used for my roof. Luckily for me the windows are slightly clouded out, but if a player looks through it for long enough they'll notice the stuff behind the map. I've implemented this for now, but I am reluctant to keep it in as it doesn't offer much in the way of extra light. Well, thanks again for all of your suggestions! Please keep them coming as I really appreciate hearing from you. The most recent version of the map can be found on my fileshare under the name Core [THIRD EDIT]. Also, a quick message @ Dax and SpinCycle - when playtesting, did you think that the walkways-part of the map (between Blue and Red spawn) was used much more than the buildings-part of the map? (I'll make an edit in about an hour or so with a new sketch of my map).
No. The traffic was perfectly fine. I think Dax's teleporter actually made it worse. I played on your second edit and Dax's version. I liked some elements better in both. I disagree with Preacher on the central core. The core gives the map character and something to remember it by. I like it a lot. You can enlarge the map instead of reducing the size of the rooms, especially since most of the important LoS on the map are on 90 degree angles... It'll take quite a bit of work, but I think the results will be worth it. I see the paper thin walls a pretty big negative as is. As for the SDs, yes, I was thinking about them in conjunction with the rockets. The rockets don't really spawn fast enough to effectively counter ducking around corners, and the SDs could help with this, especially so if you choose to thicken the paper thin walls. They would also alleviate issues regarding the lack of grenades on map (which I like in this case, by the way). Timers and weapon count can be changed to fit as well. Explosions are nice As for the cover, crenellations, I would try something with more substance. They will have the same issues as the paper thin walls. By thickening the actual wall, you can make people feel more comfortable there while actually making it more dangerous The walkway issue also extends to the area behind red spawn - I don't know if you changed that in your third edit. Looking forward to your sketch and your new version.
If you ask any map developer, they would recommend against this kind of thinking. It's just a waste of space and potential. Wasted space inside a map is the enemy. I disagree with SpinCycle014. I'm not saying to never use this forge object, but using it as the one and only central theme is going to get tiresome quickly. I've already seen it centered in a number of maps. This is the problem with developers over detailing objects meant to be used in map editing. Simpler is better. Man do I wish they would give us a few smaller glowy objects that we could craft into something cool ourselves. Quality advice. I would also add; change up some of those angles, even if they are near the ceiling and don't affect gameplay. I would like to point out this wouldn't be necessary if you moved the map to the asteroid. The risk of falling off of the map should be real, and considered part of the design. I don't know why lately people feel that they should never have to worry about that. Check out the UT/Quake maps from days of old. I think you should probably revisit lockout and guardian to invoke some inspiration and advice on line of site changes for your outside area. I hate editing ind[SIZE=2]oor spaces [SIZE=2]so I'm not alot of help [SIZE=2]there. LOL, I'm [SIZE=2]neither [SIZE=2]good with indoor or out so it's more of the middle ground I deal with [SIZE=2]Just like any map creator, I am working on it. [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] So could you do anything with the roof? Honestly I'm not doing this on purpose, but if you had this map on the asteroid you wouldn't even need to add a window, just a simple opening. lol, I totally didn't get that. You could always redefine the name. I probably wouldn't let the name be what holds something back from great things. Imagine your name was Hitler. That's right, I threw down Edited by merge: Just a quick example to show what I mean about adding angles. It's something that is hard for me to wrap my head around but some of the nicest forged maps usually utilize this type of thinking. Simple but it looks and works better than a basic rectangular hallway.
Also, if I haven't said it twenty times, note the depth of the hallway walls I think this goes without saying, but don't blindly accept something one of us tells you. You are your own person - we are taken. Or at least, I think that's how the cliche goes. I'd like to look this over in forge with you sometime.
I love how this is turning out and I think the simple fun design of this map will make it a favorite for many on here. BTW This thread is a great example of community. You guys are all working together to make something good into something great! I love these kinds of threads. Instead of know-it-alls telling you how bad your map is and offering no help, I see forgers who love great maps and are working together to help each other improve and test their designs. We need to see more of this awesomeness on Forgehub. Bravo to all you guys
Dax and I played a game on here the other day. The primary problem I had during our game was the meager size of the design as it led to a couple different problems; most notably, the lack of dancefloor on the outer walkways and cramped indoor locations. I think removing any random clutter from and scaling up those rooms should do the trick. While on the subject, another problem that was evident on account of its size was the linear LoS avaliable to players. With them, predicting where your opponent was coming from or would spawn became simple. Also, looking at the sketchup you made, I think the path that was to the left on the mancannon should be defined as its own space. A seperate room that is blocked off from the outer part of the map, if you will. It would make that stetch much more effective against the topmost position, which was abused a couple of times given its LoS on every viable entrance and height advantage. Spoiler Red: The crossmap LoS I suggest attempting to remove. Orange: The crossmap LoS I suggest implementing. Aside from that, I thought it was pretty fun. The teleporters could be placed in more suitable positions to be more useful, though. When I get my xbox back, I wouldn't mind going over the problems I had in forge with you.
There seems to be different comments about differents version of the map, so let me establish something: in total, there are five versions of the map, and all can be found on my fileshare. The lastest version is Core [FOURTH EDIT]. It took me a while to make and I'm not sure what to think of it. I took up SpinCycle's suggestion and made the walls thicker, and broke up some of the long walkways. Instead of explaining, I drew out another sketch of the latest version. As you can see, the map has changed quite a bit since I posted my first sketch. The most noticeable improvement for me is probably the height variation - there is also slightly more room to walk around in. The courtyard has opened up and now offers routes into the Main Room, Red Spawn room and Blue Spawn tower. The walkway between Red and Blue spawn is now gone - players now have to traverse around the map or across the courtyard to move between spawns. The 'hard route' and grav-lift Auburn suggested on Page 1 have been swapped around, making the grav-lift safer and the walkway less freakishly long. Note that the silo in the middle of the grav-lift path blocks the grav-lift from view when standing atop the Blue Spawn tower. I also removed all cover from the front of the Blue Spawn tower, allowing players to be shot from all directions. The three main sightlines between the tower and the rest of the map are: the doorway between the Side Room and the large ramp, the doorway between the Console room and the courtyard, and the outside walkway behind the Console room. There is now slightly more room to move about in the courtyard. The area between the Console room and the Main Room is now less cramped, and offers more height variation. Note: The latest version on my fileshare is incomplete - killzones may be a bit sloppy and spawning hasn't yet been implemented. Another thing to note is that I used different pieces for the walls this time around. In my opinion, the aesthetics don't look as good as they used to be but if it improves gameplay then I will keep them thick. I really appreciate all of your feedback so far! Please let me know what you think about the latest version. Also, I've been thinking about removing the Blue Spawn tower and just making it a standalone building. It seems to be creating a lot of issues with map dominance and the fact that it offers too many lines of sight is a bit worrying. Do you all reckon it should be removed?
I thought blue tower was fine as it was in your Third Edit, being that it only had cover from one side and had no LoS or vicinity to the rockets.. I wouldn't make it standalone (discourages traffic even more and makes it more overpowered, since it would have greater height advantage over approaches) or delete it altogether (what would take its spot in the flow of the map?) Not sure on the silo. It seems like players could camp on the gravlift platform just around the corner in order to wind down the clock if they are winning. You could try a double gravlift (Have a gravlift to the upper right of the current one face towards the current one and have a small "asteroid" made of rock with another grav lift on it, this one pointing towards blue spawn. This could help to provide that atmosphere Preacher was mentioning, too. This way, it would be impossible to hide around the corner, as the camper at best would be visible from the majority of the building area. With the removal of the old path, the area between red and blue spawn seems a bit "choked," with only one route between the two (across the courtyard). How about trying a gravlift that takes the same path the old path between the spawns used to? This way, you would have one-way flow and an ability to distinguish which gravlift the player is taking (that is, if you use the gravlift bouncing off asteroid idea I mentioned before). I would also like to point out that the old gravlift position allowed players to escape from the courtyard by jumping in and going over to blue spawn tower - the removal of this and the cover seems like a bit much, even if it is for an extra two units of height. Even more incentive to be in the courtyard would be nice. A crate or jump leading up to the moved walkway to blue spawn might also be an interesting addition. The light blue area with four ramps leading up to me seems a bit pointless. I know something similar was there before, but it feels like a space-filler rather than actual level. You could use that space to expand the two adjacent rooms and implement more height variation along the right side of the map. Wow, wall of text. I like the direction you're taking with this map It's refreshing not to see the same old ideas and styles.. If you want me to clarify anything, just let me know.
Made the mistake of downloading the map at 2:30am. Ran around it and decided I would make a few edits to give a little visual inspiration on how to improve map coverage and variety. 2hrs later I tried to upload only to find out my trial gold account won't even let me upload to my Halo fileshare. Gold my ass, it's a limited silver from all I can see. Aaaanyway it's 4:45am, time for bed. If I finally get my butt down to Best Buy and pick up my Gold renew I'll upload and let you know.
yeah, the 14 free days of "gold" are actually just 14 free days of halo 4 multiplayer, so I guess it's only worth it if you don't have a gold membership already. I took a look at the new versions. quite a lot of changes. i see you got some suggestions about gameplay, so I'm not going to give more. I know that it is secondary to gameplay but the map could be visually improved. the forging could be a bit better and will probably be improved, but the map looks dull. the map is only built to be functionnal, there is no strong theme. you have large, empty rooms which seem to serve no purpose with a couple crates which look out of place. the console room could be a computer room. maybe the rocket room could be a warehouse, that would explain the random crate.
Wow, it's really great to see everyone giving input on this. Sorry I haven't checked in on this thread in a while. I've been super swamped with school as this is my last week before winter break, apologies for not taking the time to read the more recent posts and see how the map is taking shape, but I did look at your newest sketch. Two things stuck out at me. Why did you remove that connection at the bottom of the sketch?? I think the tower area definitely needs more movement options. In that sketch it seems like everything is a little more disjointed now. I would definitely add that back. Also, since there is already a direct, quick route from top left of the sketch to bottom left, that teleporter(See: mancannon.. This lack of sleep is really getting to me -__- ). seems like it won't get much use, if any at all. People would choose to quickly travel directly to their intended destination (bottom left tower area) rather than spend more time going around the back to the man cannon. Hopefully I can have some time this weekend to play and check out what you've done with it
Agreed. In addition, I think you should remove the random cover in the indoor rooms because they don't seem necessary, and adding a small wall next to the incline connecting light and dark green levels. If you're going with Dax's teleporter system, I think you should remove the rightmost inclining connecting to it and wrap that stretch around, placing the reciever at the end. It would give players in a certain position to get quick LoS on an opponent after they've gone through the teleporter. I like the changes you've made, man. Spoiler
Instead of replying to each little quote from everybody, I'm going to keep this post nice and short. I took on board what everyone has said and read through the whole thread a few times before remaking the map for the third time. The sketch above is Core [FIFTH EDIT]. The main difference in this sketch is that the whole map is larger - as a result, the Main Room, Side Room and Courtyard are all slightly bigger than before. There are now more routes than ever up to the Blue Spawn tower. The Blue Spawn tower was also slightly lowered to eliminate the big height advantage it had over the rest of the map. It has vision of five entrances and all cover has been removed, creating a risk-reward situation. I included the two Sticky Detonators SpinCycle suggested. One of them randomly spawns every two minutes. The rocket launcher still initially spawns, and is on a 4 minute resupply time. The tactical jump between the Main Room and Side Room is now much easier to make - the little ledge it leads to has also doubled in size. The walls are back to their thin state. This was changed back because I ran out of building blocks for the rest of the map with thick walls. Aesthetically, I also thought that wall pieces looked better as walls. The walkway leading from Blue Spawn tower to Red Spawn room has been changed slightly - it now offers more height variation, and can now be accessed from the Courtyard. The Main Room is noticeably larger than before. All four corners of the map have vision of the diagonal, opposite corners (this means you can shoot players atop Blue Spawn tower from the elevated position in the Main Room). Thank Auburn's sketch in his second last post for this change. It is also the main reason why the map was remade. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * And that's most of the changes I can think of. I'd really like to thank everyone for their input so far. This map has definitely improved since my first post, and I couldn't have done it without you all! Feel free to make any comments on this fifth version of the map. All versions can be found on my fileshare.
Preacher mentioned this issue before, and it's come back here. There's almost no reason to go into the courtyard when that two-way route is back. This version also has the thin walls (I understand why, but I'm sad, because it'll mess with the power of the SDs and Rockets) and that strange up and down part on top of red spawn. Not a huge fan of the columns to break LoS either. What I would also like to see is more options in terms of movement, with the weapons on the riskier paths. It seems like you had good intentions with this one, but mixed the wrong ideas together.
I uploaded the file to my fileshare, Kazerra. There was some good and bad so I just made a few inspirational changes (quicky flow changes, cover and a door visual) not a fix, and also included a mock courtyard on the asteroid so that you could get an idea where I was moving you to. Also I had originally envisioned your ramp on the other side of that tower and then you wouldn't have to kill the original walkway, not that it didn't need help as well. Also the more we tweak up the rest of your map the more I feel that console room needs some help. Gotta jet to work. Give it a download and let me know what you think
Unfortunately, those linear lines of sight on the outskirts of the design are still there. As those are the most problematic aspect right now IMO, I think you should try to remove those. They make bleu tower OP and create a single position that has LoS over much of the design. Additionally, I think you should add walling between the two different colors at top center, and place the death pit in a more suitable area. The ramped path where it is currently located shouldn't have such a disadvantage given it's one of the few viable paths to push up on the most powerful position. The same applies to the other path; it's very skinny and long, thus very suscepable to grenade spam and makes it difficult to push up. I hate to keep dropping suggestions while everybody else is doing the same, but I think you should revert back to the more room-based design that you had originally. It would remedy a couple of problems and remove the need for those random pillars. Kudos for taking the feedback so well. You don't see that often. I still have yet to play this with you, man. Cmoooon
Sorry I couldn't play this with you the other day :/ was suuuper busy. Hopefully soon Ok, so looking at your newest version, I'm a little worried about having 2 sticky dets AND rockets. While Spin said he liked the rockets during our game, I think it was because he whored them so much Looking at it from the other end (someone who got killed 6 times by them in a game going to 15. Good thing I still won ), it seemed a bit overpowered. There were too many clips and there also wasn't a counter for it. The problem with having Rockets on such a small map is that you need a suitable counter weapon or else it becomes entirely too overpowered. In this case, a sticky det is essentially a less powerful version of rockets, giving them a definite disadvantage. This is more just personal opinion, but I would think about replacing the rockets with something that takes more skill to use. Maybe something like railgun vs. sticky det? And possibly throw a sniper somewhere in there too? It's still shaping up nicely, keep me updated
Perhaps reduce SC count on the rockets. The idea was what I liked. Also, I failed miserably, only hit 6 out of my 10 shots... why would I have enjoyed the rockets for that reason? seriously. wth. Also, railgun is pretty poor compared to stickydet based on time to kill.. I like sniper, though. Just keep it far from blue tower.