Edit 11/16/12 Max Hoberman of Certain Affinity: “The majority of people aren't going to get into Forge, but the vast majority of people benefit from the creations of those people who are really willing to invest in it.” Alright! A huge thanks to everyone here on Forgehub for all the great feedback and suggestions. It really is inspiring. Trying to get a gaming company to change and improve their game is definitely a challenge, but I believe we can do it! Company’s do listen when enough people tell them something (look what happened with Mass Effect 3) We all just need to keep working together! I would like this thread to enter into “phase two.” We’ve come up with a couple of great ways of contacting 343 and Certain Affinity, and we’ve listed a lot of the problems that NEED to be addressed. NOW WE NEED TO CONTACT THEM! And I would like this thread to stay focused on being a resource for people to do that. Guys . . . I’ve been thinking a lot about it, and it might be, that our best option to get 343's and Certain Affinity’s attention, is for all of us, every. Single. One of us. To email them. I know this is a bold request for me to make of so many people. But it might just be what needs to be done. A few of you already have, and I cannot thank you enough. I want to encourage others to post their letters in this thread as well. And I will make a list at the bottom of this post to thank everyone that does. I will be writing several letters as well. But letters are just one part of a bigger effort I’m working on (one of these being this very thread.) So my letters are still a week or two out, but I will post them as well in this thread. And that’s where I would really like to go with this. A THREAD TO INSPIRE PEOPLE TO WRITE LETTERS! Of course there are other methods of getting 343 and Certain Affinity’s attention, and I will do what I can to keep updating a list of those as well. First will a list of general methods to contact 343 and Certain Affinity. That apply to all the challenges we’re facing. And then I will list the major concerns that I’ve seen concerning forge and custom games with specific threads / resources relative to those concerns. ● Send BS Angel a private message: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_profile4408.aspx ● Send Certain Affinity an email: http://www.certainaffinity.com/contact/ ● Post on Certain Affinity's Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/CertainA.../videos?view=0 ● Obviously we can also make threads, comment and vote in the 343 forums as well. More links to come. If anyone has any more good ideas, I would love to hear them. And once again, hopefully it's cool posting links to another forum. I apologize if it's not. (Incomplete) List of major improvements that need to be made in a general order of importance: ● No nudge/ precision editing. In this recent article from Gamestop with Certain Affinity http://www.gamespot.com/features/halo-4-not-built-by-microsoft-alone-6399552/ Max Hobberman says this: “There's just something that we overlooked that allows you to move objects around with intimate detail that…like I said, it's just an oversight on our part and we're already talking about getting it fixed.” So I’m optimistic that it’s going to be fixed. But then I heard this from their response to an email to them: “Rest assured that your feedback about precision editing is noted and that it is being communicated up the chain. I am not sure if it will be re-added in the future. To be honest that is further out than my Forge crystal ball can see.” So I would encourage people to still include the precision editor in their posts and emails. Another thing they can do is post and vote in this thread at the 343 voting booth: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst133360_Forge--nudge--mode-removed.aspx ● NO WAYPOINT SUPPORT FOR FILE SHARE! Wow. ● Glitches. Ok this is a big one. Halo 4 obviously has a lot of glitches. And it’s crucial that they get fixed as soon as possible. But I feel like most of the more glaring glitches stand out enough that 343 is well aware that they need to get fixed. However of course people are welcome to address any glitches they want in their emails and posts to 343. I will list a few of the glitches I’ve heard about and seen that are relative to forge and custom games, for ease of reference to people writing feedback. - Objects moving slightly after a map is reloaded - Dynamic lighting on a map glitches out sometimes after players go over a certain amount of budget. - Map can be overwritten by other maps. A more detailed look at this glitch and how to avoid it can be found here: http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1163418 - Objects, weapons, vehicles not spawning in when they are they are suppose to/ if players are around. - Explosions seem to be going through walls and shields. I’m sure I’m missing some, and there’s some that are yet to be discovered, but I will do my best to keep the list updated. 343 Bug report thread: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst130475_Issues-being-investigated.aspx ● Missing gametype options. Forge and custom gametypes go together like peanut butter and jelly! This is devastating. Here is the best list I’ve found so far: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst127421_Custom-game-options-are-unacceptable--343.aspx PLEASE DROP COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD! Also here is another list (note section on custom games) to help with your emails: http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/12zhkg/a_comprehensive_list_of_halo_4s_shortcomings/ I am also working on my own comprehensive list. Since I’ve hosted somewhere around 6000 custom games, there’s a lot I want to see come back/added. ● Needing a bigger, more open forging environment, that has a full spectrum of terrain, from jagged rocks, to small hills, to flat ground. But at the same time, still being small enough to not cause frame rate issues. The new map should also have a forerunner pallet with sharp edges and patterns that blend together better. Also it should have water that players can go into. More new pieces would really be nice too. I have written a little about this here: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_...forge-map.aspx ● Needless soft kill zones on the three forging maps. Very few forge piece on all the other “non forge” maps. This might not be fixable. But if we mention this in our emails hopefully they will make the maps they’re working on right now better. ● No UNSC flying vehicle. I know this isn't directly related to forging, but I do think it's directly related to custom game options. And customs are directly related to forge . . .? Come on! don't hate me for one semi related link! We need this! https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_...r-Vehicle.aspx ● More to come. I know I’m missing some stuff . . . So much info! Lol. A HUGE THANKS TO THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE FOR WRITING LETTERS AND POSTING THEM IN THIS THREAD: A Legit Taco SilentJacket xzamplez (I think he deleted his email out of the thread though ) PLEASE DO NOT CRITICIZE PEOPLE FOR THEIR LETTERS, WRITE YOUR OWN! Original thread is below: I really like seeing all the debate going on about Halo 4 forge needing to better. No matter what you are underwhelmed about, whether it be no precision editing, the forge maps not being big or flat enough, or missing gametype options, we need to get 343 to hear us! To be absolutely clear, I am pretty happy with Halo 4 and Forge in general. I am just really focused on making Halo and forge as good as possible. That is what this thread is intended to be about. There's already enough threads out there about what people don't like. I want to focus on HOW to make things better. I'll admit that I'm not exactly sure as to the best way to make this happen. But doing SOMETHING is better than nothing. Two options that come to mind are posting in the 343 forums and sending private messages/ emails to the 343 community managers. The main 343 Halo 4 forums are really busy, but there's a lot of negativity in there as well. Plus threads tend to get buried in a matter of hours. What about the polling booth? I've recently made a couple of threads, and several comments and it would seem like the people posting in there are mostly interested in making the game better . . . I know it might not seem like 343 will listen to us, but if enough of us post, I really feel like they're bound to. I look at threads like “Anyone else slightly disappointed with forge?” and how it already has a 100 comments, and I can't help but wish some of those were over at the 343 forums. I know it might not be cool to post in one forum about people going to another forum, but you guys over here are really intelligent and awesome. And I know you're passionate about making Halo the best it can be, so hopefully you'll forgive me. What do you guys think about starting a poll over at the polling booth for each of the main problems? What are the main problems? Can we get an agreed list together, and then make a huge united effort to get the issues fixed? Above all, no matter what we do, it needs to be constructive. One of the best ways to get people to see things from your perspective, is to see things from their perspective first. A tool that has been enormously effective for me when it comes to offering advice is the “praise, correct, praise” method. Or “PCP” for short. So first offer some sort of praise, then offer the correction, then after they've made the correction (or at the end of a thread you're writing for example,) offer another praise. So instead of posting or sending a message to 343 that's like “The Halo 4 forge maps ****ing suck, make them better. You guys ruined Halo, I hate you.” Try something along the lines of “Thank you 343 for giving us 3 different forging environments to build maps in. However, the maps are a little too small to really make large maps on. Please give us some sort of large, open, somewhat flat map, with hills and more interesting terrain. Thank you for your time, I know you guys are doing the best you can.“ If we are entirely negative with our methods of communication then people might tend to think “this is just a miserable person, and nothing can possibly be done to make them happy. Why even try.” I know this might seem really “goody goody” but it works, I've been using it for years. But there's always other methods too. Have something better in mind? I'd love to hear it. Ok, wrapping up here, what I'd like this thread to be for, is a place to pool our different 343 polling booth threads, and other positive ideas. I'll do my best to list them bellow in an organized fashion. That way people will be able to go and vote on the subjects that are important to them as quickly and efficiently as possible. And then of course come back here to Forgehub. Once again, I hope you guys will forgive me for posting links to another forum. To keep things on task, I'm asking that people only post links in here that are specifically related to making forging and custom games better (since they kind of go hand in hand.) They don't all have to be threads in the polling booth of course, it can be anything that will get 343's attention. A couple of ideas that come to mind, is say perhaps someone who is upset about there being no flying UNSC vehicle in multiplayer (I know I am) they could make a huge Falcon, forge art style! And then send that to 343. Or someone could do some awesome fan art dedicated to raising awareness about the forge maps needing to be better. Good at making music? Make a song and send it. Whatever you think will work, I want to see a link! Like I've mentioned before I've already made one thread. It's about how the forge maps are not flat enough and it can be found here: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_...at-enough.aspx The next in-depth thread I'm going to write is about he lack of gametype options. Such as No Race, Neutral flag or one flag, as well as no Bomb gametypes. I know there are some workarounds to these game types, but I've already found some problems with those. Hence I will be going into more depth in the future thread. Of course is someone else already wants to do that themselves, that totally awesome too. I'm also planning on writing about several other things that I think could be better as well. And I might even try doing some fan art myself! Here are a couple more good voting threads written by other people directly related to making forge better. Go cast your votes! No precision/ nudge tool: https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_...e-removed.aspx No UNSC flying vehicle (essential for some of my friends and mine's favorite custom gametypes.)https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_...r-Vehicle.aspx Alright, one last thing. Perhaps it might even be a good idea to make a very short sticky thread entitled “Ways to get a hold of 343 about improvements to forge.” With just a short paragraph and then links. That way people don't have to read the massive assault of text and bad grammar above. Hopefully I haven't broken any of the forum rules with these suggestions. If I need to change anything, please let me know, and I'll be happy to. Let's get creative! We're Forgehub dammit! The most creative Halo community out there! If any of you actually read this entire thing, I thank you! (btw, noticed the entire structure of this post is using the “PCP” method. See what I did there, lol.)
Do not care about the whole UNSC no air vehicle discussion since this is supposed to be Forge related, but my only concern with Forge is the lack of Forerunner Palette pieces, that was something I truly wanted in this game.
Very awesome man. I can totally agree that a forerunner pallet on a future DLC forge map would be great. What do you think would be the best way to communicate this to 343? What do you think about making a poll over at the polling booth? I'd vote. Edited by merge: I really did not mean to come across in a negative way. I'm actually pretty happy with Halo 4 and forge in general. I just want to make it better. If you read my poll over at the polling booth, I feel like I clearly express that. : ) Here, let me edit the original thread so that other people don't get that same idea. I too do not like people just complaining. I really want to just get some ideas going, that's the point of this. . . . there done. Hopefully thing are a little more clear. I should have thought to include that paragraph from the beginning. Thanks for the feedback.
This, they won't change anything, they can't add in new objects except maybe in DLC there's already been discussion on that. Besides, the main problems in forge are glitches anyway... Glitches get fixed,naturally no matter who complains. Whether or not they take it apon themselves to fix these glitches (lighting glitches, pieces shifting) however remains to be seen.
Very good point. I agree that a new Forge DLC map is probably our best option at this point. I'm not sure if I entirely agree that glitches are the MAIN problem, but they definitely are a big problem. I actually already made a thread here on Forghub and over at the 343 forums about the "saved maps being over written." It's definitely a big problem that they need to get fixed right away. I've already lost at least an hour of time because of it. But overall, I think lack of large forging spaces and lack of custom game options that we had in the previous Halo games might be detrimental to the long life of Halo 4's forging and custom games.
I understand, but if you look at these forums all there is are the previews and people who are complaining. Seeing as Forge 2.1 is an improvement, I find tat kind of annoying. I understand you have good intentions, I was just stating my thoughts. Best of luck with your changes to forge.
i think that asking for a big flat space is probably the stupidest thing we could do, no offense intended to you. we've had people asking for a big boring flat space since halo 3. instead i think it would be more productive to ask for fixes to all the lighting glitches, placement glitches, and gametype options that are missing. if you want a flat space, put some coliseum walls in the air or build in the grifball court. there is tons of room in there and plenty of room on impact and ravine to make a large floating flat map, if thats what you want to do.
In your opinion, what makes Halo 4's forge an improvement from Halo: Reach's forge? Sure, I'm not happy with forge, at all, but complaining about it more than likely won't work.
I like the 3 separate canvases, giving us 3 unique settings. I find the dynamic lighting a great improvement over any forge map in Reach. The ordinance drops are a fun new system of delivering weapons, and still gives us the choice to make it a select weapon or random. The terrain has both flat and hilly areas, providing locations to multiple scenarios and still allowing the floating maps. Map specific pieces. Good game modes from launch (applies more to the custom game settings, though I will agree with anyone that the options are not u to snuff). I like the new weapons and the returning ones (ie: beam rifle). While the textures are the same in each for map for items, erosion for example is dirty while the others have cleaner pieces. Magnets (for flooring mostly). So there a a few. While I will not hesitate to say it has problems, precision movement and splitscreen to name a few, I must say it is over all an improvement to forge.
You can do ordinance drops in a custom map? Some of those things are nice, but honestly, I find the dynamic lighting to be one of the most retarded things they added in.
It looks nice though, and works really well on Ravine and Impact (not so much on Erosion, but rusty peices make up for it. _) Though I will say that the indoor areas look lackluster now.
You're totally right about glitches being a bigger problem than getting a big flat space. Maybe that should have been the focus of my first poll. I haven't experienced any really bad glitches yet, but you guys do a lot more forging than I do. I'm glad you made me more aware of that. I will ABSOLUTELY AGREE 100% that we need our missing gametypes! The point of what I'm getting at with this thread, is that no matter what the problem is, we need to make 343 aware of it, so that it can get fixed right away. Do you feel like 343 is aware of how bad the glitches are? Are they aware of all the gametypes that they've left out? What would be the best way to make them aware? These are exactly the questions I'm wondering about. I see these huge discussions going on over here at Forgehub, and that's awesome, I love this site and community. But I wonder how much good does it do? Is anyone from here in contact with anyone from 343? Do they listen to you guys? Lol, I get what you're saying about asking for a big flat map being stupid. I could think of a lot more stupid things though . . . Halo 4 for free, demanding we get armor lock back, demanding we get some really obscure maps from an older Halos that no really liked. Sorry I'm kind of cracking myself up, my mind is thinking of so much ridiculous stuff. Once again man, I get what you're saying, but do you really think it's THE stupidest thing we could ask for? Better yet though, let's just agree that we need better forge spaces. It seems like most people would agree on that. What would the ideal forging space be? Though back to the main point of what I'm getting at, is HOW do we get 343 to notice? Should everyone come together and agree on a list of things and then we make a big thread over at the 343 forums? Or the top person from Forgehub taking the list and sending a letter to someone at 343 that they're in contact with? What are the main issues. And how do we get 343 to fix them.
4's Forge is a decisive step down from Reach, and not just for the well-known reasons like precision movement. I was amazed to find that some pieces don't even rotate around their center axis anymore, meaning I have to freehand any overlapping pieces I need. Of course, this is now incredibly tedious due to the aforementioned lack of precision. Coupled with the missing or bastardized pieces and the completely inflexible forging environments and I can no longer make anything worthwhile or unique. Even several mini-games are no longer possible due to the way momentum is calculated, or rather, isn't calculated. The improvements they did make, like dynamic lighting and multiple palettes, have no actual impact on forging, so they are irrelevant. The worst part about this is that with so many fundamental flaws with the mechanics, there is no way 4's Forge can be "fixed" with any future updates. To claim 4 is an improvement would be false, and to say that I'm disappointed would be an understatement.
I'm with you, Chrono. Unfortunately. I loved forge in Reach but so far nothing I've seen or heard about Halo 4 forge has made me happy, except dynamic lighting which is just a nice aesthetic thing anyway. I initially wanted to be blown away by this; later I would have settled for just liking it as much as Reach. But ultimately it just feels like forge was an afterthought, and handled by someone who didn't understand what made the mode great in the first place, let alone what could be done to really improve it. There will be some nice-looking and well-playing maps made, I'm sure, but my enthusiasm for it has dimmed to the degree that I don't know if I'll be forging even half as much, this time around. Luckily I'm quite enjoying multiplayer and really liked campaign, and I'm sure will like Spartan Ops when I get around to trying them, so there's enough other stuff on the disc to keep me occupied if forge ends up being a total bust.
This. I do not understand why people want a flat space. What exactly are you going to do with that flat space, you can build on it and then all you can do from there without terrain editing is place pieces awkwardly around it. It would look less realistic if the space were flat and would offer no potential cover, no interesting banked areas for hogging, no LOS blockage. The first thing you want to do when you have a bunch of flat ground is make sure it isn't flat, and without a full blown terrain editor we need hills and cliffs and rocks. Agreed also that the things that need to be fixed are the things that can be, namely glitches and gametypes. I doubt that precision editing can be brought back, though I preferred it, so if anything they need to make sure magnets and coordinates function fine and fix the object shifting glitch where all objects rotate when you bring someone else into forge with you. For gametypes I feel that the race community deserves race back after all the focus griffball got and that a few could be returned, such as flag variants, though I think a few of them did need to go (cough cough headhunter, juggernaut, stockpile.) Invasion does not need to come back though and it will not. It won't be on any of the MM maps, elites are gone, the humans have no air vehicle, and the forge maps don't suit building an invasion map on because of the sheer scale. I loved it but I'm not too sad to see it gone. Remember though before we try to hard to send them all of this that they are planning on adding a lot of title updates with a lot of content in each one, so patches to these bugs will likely be found quickly and we could even get game types back. Still, if someone could find a way to get this taken seriously I would suggest trying it, as at least they need to know about the glitches and issues that made it into the game. Edit: I still think this forge has a lot of potential. I'm not entirely used to the new system yet just like I wasn't used to Reach's when I first started using it, but I've seen some cool stuff being done already with the new objects and terrain and in general I'm excited to be working in the halo 4 sandbox instead of Reach's, with real warthogs, a better weapon set, and even default sprint.
I can't speak for everyone but when i hear "I want a flat map" I don't hear "I want sandbox from halo 3" I hear "I want forgeworld" Because it wasn't truly flat but it was a blank canvas with hills and lumps and stuff to use to our advantage unlike Halo 4 forge maps which have super intrusive terrain that is really hard to use to our advantage. If i want to make a largish map with generally flat (still slight elevations small hills and stuff) to forge my OWN map there is no where on any of the forge maps to do that without something getting in the way. And just build a skybox map isn't a solution because if the reasons you mentioned about a super flat map.
Ok! Awesome! Thank you for all the feedback already guys! This is what I'm talking about. What are the main issues, and how do we get 343 to notice them. I've already edited my original thread a little bit. I feel like people were fixating a little too much on the fact that I said I want a "somewhat flat map." What I really want is a somewhat flat map with more interesting places to forge on. The existing maps are just about large enough, there's just too much stuff in the way. What would the optimal forging space look like? Forgeworld in general was probably too big for the Xbox 360 to handle well. But is there a section of forgeworld that if we got something similar would work best? Or better yet, would a modified version of one of the campaign environments work best? What would the optimal space be like? I think most people would agree that it needs to be somewhat flat, but also have small hills, large hills, water on one side and mountain on another? And then if we really large terrain pieces. Like a really big grassy or sandy hill? And then a couple of really large rocks? I think most people would agree that, that would be awesome. I'm going to start revising my original post and listing the main issues you guys are bringing up. Again, thank you all for the feedback.
Lol, ? Why do we have to keep going on and on about flat? Let's focus on what the ideal environment would look like. Read the rest of my post. Don't you feel like most players want a better map? And more importantly, what are all the main issues, and how do we get 343 to become aware of them. (like I said above)