Exactly. I don't need 3 BRs. How bout the Nade launcher makes a return instead? That's what I'm advocating. Yeah, Carbine has been in Halo for a while and it's been my favorite utility rifle, but I think it should be removed or seriously altered to something more distinct. I've had this problem since Halo 2, when this duality was more or less created. Problem is, it seems to get worse in each iteration. This applies to all weapon roles. More roles, less in each role, preferably one in each. I picked Beam Rifle over the Sniper because I thought it had a more unique mechanic with the overheat.
Aka what Cod does with 50 guns with minor stat variances then a few snipers and shotguns. More roles yes but I want at least 2 in each role give some variance. Which human/covy equivalents provided nicely.
A couple of pages ago the revenant/chopper and the falcon/hornet niche was brought up. You mentioned how they replaced the focus rifle with the redundant beam rifle and the GL with the detonator (I've posted why I dislike it, why it's easier to use). Don't forget also that the spiker/plasma rifle niche is eliminated for two more AR bloom weapons. They nixed the plasma launcher, which required players to predict an enemy vehicle's movement through terrain and obstacles, which meant that it had to be used conservatively, but its range would be longer than just rocket equivalents when used appropriately. I agree completely with Spincycle- more redundant weapons, but with the nuances decrease the skill gap. They added two new direct-fire 1sk weapons:the binary rifle and the railgun, each redundant with the sniper and laser respectively, yet also redundant with each other-the difference being exclusive effective ranges (one only good at non-scope, other good with a scope/two scopes - beyond the range of most other weapons). The binary rifle's laser pointer is like the spartan laser's, and the charge of the spartan laser doesn't allow you to take your time firing, so I do not see the pointer of the binary as being a unique addition. All of those power weapons (snipers/railgun) do a lot of damage to vehicles as well (the Binary description in the bulletin mentioned it being used to take out a mantis). When they don't create same-niche weapons with different ROF/spread, the weapons are extremely redundant anyway. The two weapons could have been a single gun with a charge+pointer time in between that of the laser and railgun, with a 2x scope, putting it on the same terms as the primary rifles, not shorter or longer, and it would still have the same effectiveness on smaller maps. I wouldn't consider the seperation based only on range a relatively significant issue, but they're not managing the sandbox weapon slots effectively at all. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Nutduster, what you said about falcons could be said about warthogs. There isn't often as much aerial cover as there is ground cover, but falcons are faster and have more firepower. Rockets track falcons but not warthogs (an addition with reach, even though they had already added the plasma launcher to replace the missile pod). After these disadvantages to the falcon relative to the warthog are considered, however, also consider that (besides speed/firepower) it is much easier to stay out of the range of EMPs (PP/GL) and not be flipped/damaged by frags/plasmas/CR. I would have preferred that the falcon guns could be oriented closer to the front of the falcon, such that the nose would have to be tilted only a few degrees off target to give the gunner a sight. Pegasi: Why are the UNSC vehicles superflous compared to the banshee? Is it because they're not killing machines that need to be taken out immediately if winning is to be a possibility? You could say that the H3 avalanche transport hornet and the falcon cover functions of the warthog, but you could say the same about the banshee with respect to the ghost, except it makes infantry players complain (I'm not saying I thought that the H3 banshee was OPed). Are you saying that the banshee is more integrated because it has been around longer? Sky-warthogs are better for large maps and more height-varied maps than normal warthogs. Someone mentioned that the chopper/revenant is the only balanced counter to a hog besides a hog. I would prefer if one of the two were in H4, but they will always beat a warthog if the driver is competent/wasn't preoccupied with other enemies. The warthog only outclasses the ghost, and there are a lot of hog/occupant killing/flipping weapons and vehicles.
I don't see your guys' point at all. No niche is missing (except, like I said the beam weapon..those being sentinel and focus). The only problem you guys are having is preference. Grenander launcher? That's a skill power/medium weapon. There is now the sticky det, the railgun, the needler (according to Kynan) and hopefully the concussion takes more skill this game. All of those perform in the same niche but quite differently and allow for variety. Railgun is a better straight killing weapon, but will probably take the most skill. Stick det provides unique options and potential for multi kills, could range in skill. Needler is powerful in certain situations, not in others so you need to use it intelligently. Concussion (assuming it has a higher skill requirement) will require multiple shots to hit but be strong if you can hit them and will affect player movement. What did we lose? Grenade Launcher and Brute Shot. While I love both of those and would also prefer to have them in (in addition to or over their counterparts) nothing was really lost not having them in. The SMG (close auto) range has always suffered in Halo. The SMG was never a popular weapon and was created to replace the AR in Halo 4. Noobs bitched and the AR was brought back and eventually pushed out the SMG. These weapons (SMG, PR, Spiker, Mauler) only served one purpose in the sandbox and that was for up close quick shield kills. One either killed shields and meleed or killed shields then switched for the headshot depending on the range. Shield killing is still completely there. PP, Boltshot, Pistol are all close range shield killers that also have unique function. The SMG/Spiker/PR did not have any other unique functions. They featured the redundancy that you are all complaining about now. There will likely be some crossover into this category too with weapons like the SAW, SR and repeater all ripping shields hard but offering extra killing power and some unique functions. Plasma Launcher? Damn, that thing was dead after the beta. Not surprised nor sad that it isn't return. Hell, Halo 4 has a lot of things you can rip on it for but its weapon sandbox definitely isn't one of them. We're coming from the worst sandbox in the franchise with Reach (apart from the nade launcher) I'm really surprised people are so negative on this. I know some of those are nostalgia things and would I have loved to have everything back for options? For sure. But I'm definitely not gonna rip on the new stuff that looks pretty awesome. Also, I'm entirely not speaking for vehicles because that is a category they botched and I'm quite sad. That's where they crushed niches.
Wow that trailer was so epic! I'm so pumped. Edit: it looks like Chief is being held prisoner, wonder what that's about?
@chrs I would have to disagree with many of your points but don't have motivation or time to run through all of them. I think the weapon pallete in Halo 4 is great but I feel like there could be more options just for the sake of having more options. I think a lot of the weapons you mentioned go beyond just cosmetics like you were saying. In particular, the spiker was unique in Halo 3 because it could bounce off of the ground and walls which in turn, multiplied the spread. It wasn't exactly practical by any means but I remember it being used in Conquest quite a bit. Even if the guns were purely cosmetic for the sake of saving space and balance, I would be pleased because it would add to the atmosphere in a map. TLDR; Lots of improvements in the weapon selection in Halo 4 but I will still miss certain characteristics of guns in past halo titles.
I personally don't have a problem with Halo 4 weapon sandbox I don't think having a niche missing is the problem it seems to be to many weapons of same niche, most obvious is DMR/BR/Carbine/light rifle, 4 weapons provide basically same thing. Gives the sense that they should of put more resources into making more niches more weapon types in balanced sandbox etc instead of making a BR and DMR in same game and it has to live up to the best sandbox in the franchise in Reach so its fair to be a bit disappointed with it. I put it all down to the COD spawning system though because if there was only one DMR then everyone would spawn with that so they had to give us more of same niche weapons to give us some choices to spend credits on and stuff like what COD does, Do i want the famas or the M16, Do I want the DMR or the BR, kinda thing.
The vehicle sandbox is more of an issue than the weapon sandbox. Sure it's only two vehicles fewer than reach, but they were very unique and frequently used, not to mention they gave us a space map for forge and the banshee is the only aircraft available.
People played it all the time in customs. Also, any good player would pick up the GL every time it spawned.
I'm so glad they decided to stay with the canon when he originally gets kidnapped. :/ The rest was pretty good.