Lol yes, precision weapons DO take skill and have a very complex skill gap. You need to be able to precisely hit a moving target and finish up with a headshot while making yourself a hard target at the same time; the opponent that can do both the most efficiently wins. ARs are hardly about aiming, and are based around the person that shot first and nothing more. How can you even talk about what takes no skill in a game series that you have yet to touch the surface upon what competitive gameplay even looks like? You have a 35 in H3 and the majority of your played games in Reach are in either Living Dead or Derp-Team Slayer. Go play some Zero Bloom MLG, see if you can manage to out-DMR anyone in that playlist, and try to tell me that precision weapons take no skill with a straight face. Nope, it's about who gets luckier when the game starts throwing their bullets out in random directions, not who shot first. Even if magnetism were lessened, the complexity of the gun would remain at a level suitable for a 3 year old without thumbs. Fights would boil down to who touched the trigger first, not who is actually good at aiming and moving.
Honestly by depicting the AR and the other automatics as such weak weapons, then I am guessing you won't use them anyway. Thats what the people at 343 were going for, so that anyone can use whatever they want, firepower is surely a thing as a package which would allow the use of an automatic weapon as well as a precision weapon, therefore making the player capable at killing at any range (assuming you are likely using the storm rifle, as it seems to be the most powerful of the automatics, based on its shield grinding capabilities)
The AR is good for the player who suck with a DMR besides, everyone uses the DMR anyways Idk anyone who souly uses only the AR
This is just... no. Ever met an AR guy on the Arena playlist? People spam ARs on there at long range.. and won't even switch for a headshot. /facepalmz Anyway, my beliefs about AR users could be used as a proof that Reach ARs are rather weak. Wouldn't be applicable to H4 yet, seeing as there isn't much footage yet.
I think we will see the automatic weapons more prominently when players are using the "two primaries" perk. Having a DMR and a fully auto close-range weapon would be better than having a pistol as your secondary in lots of situations.
Stop fooling yourself."A VERY COMPLEX skill gap"? Are you seriously joking here? They are quite more skilled based than the Automatics yes , but that's about it. Don't act as if they take lots of skill.Their gameplay mechanics are fairly simple, the hitboxes not so punishing and the bloom(you so much hate) gone. How is there a complex skill gap?It is a miserably slight one. And ofc I didn't say I want autos to be as dumb as they are and yet powerful , I want them to be buffed but with according restrictions and skill requirements applied. Since like I said , they are PRIMARIES now. So predictable you are you had to bring up my "rank". You know I could have not used my gamertag right? You know It could be another tag for my serious playing and this one just for split screen right? If you can't believe and accept any of these situations and you are seriously so shallow and superficial to think that I have to display a good Halo 3 rank to you in order to participate to a good conversation about the skilled aspects of the game then I challenge you to play with me (be it Reach or Halo 3 ) on christmas that am getting back to my hometown. According to your childish and shallow logic , people who are better than you are correct? You do know that you can probably beat any of the developers balancing halo 4 weapons in the game right? Yet they are the ones that balance the weapons. My rank , and most correctly the one you see , has nothing to do with my knowledge about the game or my ability to think about it , so please do yourself a favor and use better logic than that next time.
In the context of Halo, it's one of the biggest skill gaps, second only to stuff like Melee and Rockets (the latter of which has an extra dimension of skill requirement because it's a power weapon, thus puts demand on a player to control it) Didn't see that in your OP, are we missing something? All you talked about was buffing them, not making them harder to use. Also, I hope you realise that turning autos in to real skill weapons would alienate many more people than it would please. The Lightning Gun from Quake, for example, would be an awesome replacement for ARs in my opinion, but the majority of people who actually use ARs as their main weapon would be seriously pissed. In fairness, I agree with this point. Arguments should be taken on their own merits, not based on the person making the argument. I've seen people who are very good at Halo yet can't really hold their own in a discussion about balance, because their skill is instinctive and they're not consciously reflecting on it. I've also seen people who can barely kill me in a 1v1 yet put forward some of the most profound and well reasoned balance discussions I've ever seen. Sadly, your arguments (even taken in isolation) do not hold any real merit.
@Pegasi (avoiding quote to save your eyes) I have to say that indeed my post might have been half-assed so yeah am telling you know I am all for making the autos ALOT more punishing and adding to them any skill mechanics needed for them to be in par. But how can you say my arguments don't hold a place. Isn't it crystal clear that the automatic weapons will fall behind in Halo 4 (much behind actually) compared to the "Precision" weapons? Do you like a game where 2-3 weapons are usable(thank god they at least added many version of the "god weapons" aka BR/DMR this time) or a game where the whole SANDBOX has a role? And NO , "noob-friendly" IS NOT a role... Especially in Halo , with the so many different and interesting weapons , with detail put into them , it is such a waste that the competitive gameplay must come down to 3 weapons, snipers and rockets once more. You clearly have to be seeing this, they are BOTH primary weapons yet they are nowhere near as balanced. And about the it is balanced around melee argument , that is weak and on top of what i said alread ADD THAT in Halo 4 you get slowed when you are being shot unless you are wielding a sword.
I find it pretty annoying when I argue with someone and they just copy and paste the same flawed arguments that are spewed out on a daily basis (namely from Halo Waypoint), and have been countered many times, yet they never die off... Flawed argument #1: "according to your shallow logic, people who are better than you are correct?" No, people can be fairly good at the game, have zero clue what they are talking about, but are simply gifted with good reflexes and whatnot. However, people that are pretty bad at the game are more likely to have no clue what they are talking about. It's pretty annoying when some kid that has never played a serious match in their life thinks they should be the one in charge of making changes that affect the entire population of people playing games that they live ignorant to. Like I said before; go play a match of MLG against some decently skilled players, tell me if you can out-DMR people, and then tell me that there is no complexity to it. Flawed Argument #2: "You think the game developers are skilled then?" No... There are two people that are most likely to be aware of all of the game's mechanics; the people that mastered the game at all levels by being good at every aspect of it and the people that actually programmed every mechanic themselves. At a casual level, a lot of the game's mechanics seem to not be such a big deal, but when abused at an incredibly competitive level of gameplay, it starts to show how much more important an individual mechanic can be. The problem with a lot of casuals is that they don't even know of the existence of certain mechanics, but try to argue around them; they argue with massive gaps in their knowledge/logic, but still throw a fit about being right. Argument #3: You argue about how I'm some asshole for bringing up your rank, but you're saying that the fundamental utility weapon of every Halo game has a tiny skill gap. If that's the case, why aren't you on top of it? If the gun takes no skill, but outmatches the other weapons as you've stated, then why aren't you better than everyone here? Why don't you have a 50? Why have you never played a single game of MLG in your Reach history (as of March 31, 2012) if you're so much better? Final question: if you're so butthurt about me bringing up your rank and you call it such shallow logic, why have you given no actual counter-argument aside from calling me a shallow asshole? I hardly called you out upon your rank; what's hurts your case even more is that you've never played in a playlist that offers even nearly any bit of a competitive atmosphere in Reach, but think you can argue upon what that atmosphere is like. The H3 rank just reinforces the case because ranked only starts to get competitive around 40-45. Final Note: You could have not linked your tag, but I would still question your credibility.
I am only gonna reply to this for now , lack the time and the mood for the rest. Yet I have to say you do what you accuse me of doing , spewing the same arguments again. Now about your third argument. First off I called you no asshole , try to work as someone who is having a conversation with me (i don't care if you don't like me) and not as your enemy. I don't want to kill you , i want to prove my point correct as long as I still believe so AND that is what you do aswell. Why am not on top of it?You are still continuing with shallow logic. I might be and might be not showing to you.Would that satisify you?You see , you are still asking me for proof that I qualify to talk to you. Another reason am not top is that I don't like using the DMR.No not becausei suck with it(play me and notice how I am with it ) , but the only DMR playlists and the fact that its the GO-TO weapon has made the gameplay monotonus and boring for me. So since you so much like digging in my stats go and take another look and you ll see I talk the truth when you realise that my most used weapon is the M6G magnum, a strong weapon but nowhere near as all around useful as the DMR. So by choice some people might wanna have fun instead of having a high kill death/ratio to display to shallow people like you. Besides that I did even cope with your shallow logic and offered you a match against me , so you can actually even satisfy your superficial and immature criteria. P.S. I am so much better?Who ever said I am better? WE are talking about game balance!!!Not who is better!!! ONE CAN CLEARLY see how immature and unable to have a conversation you are when after all these arguments and points from me and you , all you did is stripped everything down to: who is better , me or you? I don't care dude , I don't care at all if you are better , my points can still be 10 times smarter and more correct than yours.Be it by cleverness or be it by chance. And once again I will tell you that still , am up for playing with you , just to see what you are gonna say if I beat you.
I nominate this for "Post of the Year." But seriously, do you not see what you just typed when compared to the rest of your argument?
adricom, as I said I agree that "I'm better than you so my points are right and yours are wrong" is a stupid argument, but to be fair I don't think that's what Los is saying. As I read it, he's saying that you should try high skill games to get some perspective on just how big the skill gap is when it comes to precision weapons. It's not just "I'm better than you so I'm right," but that perhaps the level you play at and the opponents you generally face are limiting your perspective on this discussion, meaning you're not quite as well equipped to say definitively how much of a skill gap there is. As for your response to my post, I wouldn't understate the role of weapons with more "pick up and play" value for casual or lesser skilled players (they aren't necessarily the same thing). If every utility weapon in Halo was a high skill gap weapon, I'd personally love it because it'd mean that the vanilla game was as competitive as it could be, but the majority of the audience would be put off if you ask me. Even the most hardcore, entitled competitive Halo player would probably agree that Halo has always had balance between high skill gap and low skill gap weapons. What you're proposing is a massive departure from Halo as it has always stood, a much more fundamental departure than even the big changes in Halo 4 amount to. You're really talking about something akin to Quake at that stage.
I haven't followed this specific argument at all. All I can say is that I will have loadouts with precision weapons as well as loadouts with the Storm Rifle and Suppressor. Might use the one thing that lets you have a primary and a secondary to use one of those with a precision weapon sometime. I enjoy using automatic weapons in Halo sometimes, and I will use them unless I am absolutely having no fun, which I doubt will happen. Don't quite see the imbalance in that.
This thread seems to have degenerated into "I'm better", "No I am," etc. If it was my place to do so, I'd ask a mod to think about locking this before it turns into "I know you are, but what am I?"
I Do see the contradiction , but I already told him to not mix personal skill in this talk and he did it again , so the only way to prove my skill is by playing.
>Makes points >I disagree >Makes new, absurd points that no one on this thread agrees with >Needs credibility to make a point >I question the lack of credibility >The only argument against my questioning is "you're shallow, therefore I'm still credible." I don't think anyone in this thread is convinced that you have any clue of what you're talking about in any of your posts, and you have yet to deliver the tiniest amount of proof that your ideas are worth listening to. It'd be like me arguing with Apple's finest engineers about how to go about building the next-gen computer even though I'm just some jobless kid in college...but everyone should take my word because I promise that I know my ****... Side note: on every forum that you've made posts that no one has agreed to and that I've argued in, you seem to stop arguing the majority of my counter-arguments and assume victory.