Agreed. 4v4 has its role and skill set, 8v8 has its role and skill set. Still trying to figure out 6v6's role and what the intended skill set is meant to be if its the new norm gametype.
I think that all of these medium maps are 343's attempt to have faster-paced BTB. I think They're trying to get rid of this whole base-to-base mindset. (with the exception of valhalla) Besides, some maps in reach were meant for up to 12 players (countdown, sword base, boardwalk, etc.) And those games weren't slow paced in 4v4, and were even a little on the fast side in multi-team.
Valhalla with that mech + sprint + armor abilities = **** I really hope the classic playlist will be decent, but oh well, like most people on this site would probably agree, customs will be the place to be.
I would be in now way surprised if they somehow confer that classic means sprint. I mean Reach will be classic, right? I'd hate it so, so, so much but with the size of these maps and the button on the control completely focused around it, I can't see them removing sprint from MM..as much as I want them to.
I reckon if there isn't one available we should create one, along with a remake of every possible map, and then have super awesome happy nostalgic fun times. [br][/br]Edited by merge: **** no. Halo 3 style brah... at least I hope.
I'm going to leave all this silly nostalgia in the past where it belongs and drive my Mantis all over Valhalla, sprinting when not in it and generally enjoying Halo 4 for what it is meant to be. And while I totally understand why you guys are miffed with the focus on larger maps, I love BTB and 6 v. 6, so honestly this is looking better and better for me. Pre-Ordered today.
I'm just enjoying people are hating on halo 4 instead of reach now, I'm really looking forward to mantis though not just in Matchmaking but for custom games with multiple of them. Tbh I could live with sprint if it wasn't left analog stick press to use, I HATE pressing that button while trying to rotate it, its awkward and annoying. But i don't see where else to put it since LB will be my AA slot. So that's why i would prefer just faster movement in general and not have sprint.
Understood on the thumb stick. I am just so tired of all the negativity about Halo 4. And hey, we have no idea how the mantis will play, so all we can go off of now is that it looks fun from the pictures.
I agree with almost everything, except for the "1v1 battles mean more in 4v4s". With more areas, advantageous positions and power weapons (with the exception of Hemmorhage), control of at least one of these things are ceded by 1v1 duels almost as often, 2v2 almost as often, 3v3 almost as often, especially once you consider that some small maps (reflection, asylum, to a lesser extent countdown and Uncaged) have an elevated or central hotspot. Also I don't know why you think that power weapons in general are more improtant in 4v4. Map control tends to reflect the skill of the teams more dramatically in 8v8, but simultaneous vehicle+infantry pushes mean that two even teams can easily win, lose or exchange areas. Also the commensurate score lead to 25+ in 4v4 (score to win 50) for 8v8 (score to win 100) would be 50+. To address the previous issue of whether 6v6 maps/games reward team work or individual skill less than 4v4 or 8v8, the problem with these 6v6 maps is that they are either proportionately enlarged scale models of 4v4 maps (haven compared to guardian or zealot's ring designs) or proportionately downsized scale models of 8v8 maps (exile to Avalanche's U design). Like scorch said, with larger distances to balance sprint so that the players don't all bunch up constantly (or prevent chasing a one-shot guy), nothing is being added to the game. From a non-BTB design standpoint, the distance from wall to wall or cover to cover is not what allows more players to fit in comfortably- more distinct (not completely open) rooms and pathways is. This would mean creating complex and circuitous maps for non-BTB 6v6 style gameplay. From a BTB standpoint, the width and length of maps needs to allow vehicles. It needs to allow players to be able to move in opposite directions of the main path (or central area) without being forced to kill each other, such that enough distinct paths and control points are created, thus avoiding clutter and standoff for both vehicles and players. I think you'll agree, for example, that warthog and sometimes infantry gameplay on Rat's nest's thin outer track was awkward and limited. It was kind of like a shrunken BTB-element incorporating area surrounding a 4v4 map design. It suffered a bit less from clutter/standoff than narrow vehicle pathing. (forget about Rat's nest now) I think that Exile and longbow might have the problems of narrow vehicle pathways. Considering full size BTB maps, however, the new tactics and spaces allow for 8v8 teams to communicate on similar things, but they just wouldn't call out individual players who aren't using a vehicle or power weapon. 6v6 communication on smaller maps would be like 4v4 communication, but with more individual players to call out, because it's impossible to avoid enemies, unlike in BTB, where players aren't constantly being rushed, and they have a bit more time to call out things and strategize. I hope that made sense. EDIT: Okay so I had two different ideas at once and didn't seperate them logically because I thought of them both while thinking of one subject. I don't have the time to get down my ideas and revise them, so that's why so many of my posts seem incoherent End of edit I'm glad to finally see that some of you agree with me about not getting scoped out for non-sniper weapons, at least in some ways. I'll have to play to get a sense of what the flinching really is, of course, but in general flinching seems like another way of creating the same problem, while still not being a solution to anything. I'm hoping that the flinching is in a constant direction, like the BR recoil, because if it's in a random direction every time you get shot (the rifles seem to have a high ROF, even a small nudge shot for shot is going to be a problem), I'd rather have the thumbstick mashing battles, which offer some consistency. The mashing battles are hard to reverse, but not having the determine the random direction twice a second and compensate doesn't seem possible to me. I wonder if they just came up with because they thought that it would be more balanced with stability, and they knew that they weren't going to give up one of sixteen (roughly, I didn't count, split into Tacs and Supports) customizations. I think that the Binary rifle should simply not have a reticle nor aim assist, as opposed to randomness. You know that there going to be Binary shots fired at a range with a 50% chance of hitting, just like players don't always get in the exact range kill an enemy with a single shotgun shot.
Bad memory but was there a controller set up that had the AA on the stick button? I think that would be a bit better to be honest.
In reach no, Halo 4 idk. Either way I want my AA on LB I never played bumper jumper in reach because to me having analog control while using AA's>analog control while jumping. If there is that option there is the choice between Sprinting/AA's/Jumping. If you want to run jump then thruster pack to the left, No matter what button layout you use, At some point you have to take your thumb of right analog to press "A" and have awkward left analog pressed rotation. It seems way to awkward/dodgy/messy/complicated, I mean I can easily comprehend the movements and AA's and sprint and what needs to be done but the actual physical controlling of it makes me feel like I will be playing as sub par losing milliseconds of precision timing no matter if its bumperjumper or etc.
Sprint has royally screwed all the controls. If anyone wants to be able to play without taking their thumbs off the sticks, they'll need to hold the controller with a claw grip. That's really the only way to get around all this.
Seriously. It really is starting to get old when people are already hating on the game before playing it. And if I hear one more mention of a classic playlist I'm gonna cringe. Why can't you guys accept change? I loved Halo 3 as much as everyone else, but I damn sure don't want to play it with just some updated graphics. I want Halo, but I want something new and different.
Singing to the choir. I've been defending Reach on all forums even before Reach was released, Haters on hate. Its way beyond old for me i just ignore them now. But I do hope there is a classic playlist (They didnt do a good job of it in reach but the defualt gametype was fine for me) but when you add everything up in halo 4 its way more deviated then reach was and I feel like it wont scratch my "classic halo" gameplay urge. I will probably enjoy the new gametype like COD with Halo gameplay which will probably be fun in its own right but I would still like to play "classic halo" in matchmaking with promethean weapons and mechs.
Halo 3 matchmaking sucked. Most of the maps were terrible. Valhalla was one of the few I liked. Halo 2 was king in the competitive department, in my opinion. You say you want something new and different. That's fine, and you're getting all of that. But why can't other players also have a playlist that is more balanced for competition while you can enjoy playlists with all of these crazy variables thrown in? I like competitive games where everyone starts off on the same foot with the same starting weapons and not all of these variables like armor abilities and loadouts. And I prefer the classic way of obtaining weapons, finding them scattered on the map in preset locations, instead of getting some power weapons through special weapon drops. But wait, this is forgehub. We're mostly concerned with forge and custom games, right? I know I am, at least. Matchmaking isn't that important to me in the end. Custom maps and custom games give the game life. That's why I joined this site.
Valhalla, The Pit, Rat's Nest, Avalanche, Standoff, Narrows, Last Resort, Guardian, Construct, Blackout, Cold Storage... c'mon, son. H3 had some damn good maps. Otherwise I basically agree, there's nothing wrong with some people wanting a more competitive experience. It doesn't have to be a straight clone of any past game, but the various Infinity Slayer add-ons just won't work for MLG or serious competitive games.
Ranked playlists in Halo 3 had AR starts half the time. Ranked Lone Wolves has FFA Swords. Ranked Lone Wolves has Crazy King with 30-second randomly moving hills. Team Duals is a thing in Halo 3. God dammit Shishka.