I'm going to be blunt with this. And going to say this: The map will not win a beuaty contest. Its my First attempt at a 1v1 intenal map, the walls will look horrible along with the ceiling. As I had to attempt making sure there was not one gap in the wall. It could end up looking up better without the walls I built, so let me know on that. As for the map, the hope is that gameplay will get peoples attention. I've even miss bits out because of the stupid walls. So try and imagine what the map will feel like when you play it rather than stare at the walls. If you want to try it and let me know how it is, ask and I will put the link to my Fileshare on. Anyways, the map will allow very fast-paced 1v1 matches and pretty much Chaotic 2v2 matches. This map is alot smaller than most maps you will see. This map offers to Bridges that Cross the central chamber. One linked to Teleporters at the waterside. The two sides of the map have a corridor each, allowing players to have three choices to go. At the centre of the chamber has a raised platform, with a CPU on it. The map is so small that I thought close range weapons would make the game chaotic, whilst more longer range weaponry will have trouble in the small spaces. So the map will only have DMR's and NRs. Which can work up close also. Let me know if I should add any additional weapons. Besides the walls, the floors, the platform and bridges are very neatly forged. Try and ingore the makeshift work on some of the walls and just figure out how well the map will play. Like I said before, feel free to ask for the Map URL. This is my first time trying this sort of map style out as I always perfered making more open, larger maps. So try to not flame me and give me advice on the map or what sort of maps I should make over all, like what type of Forger I am. Let me know what it seems like:
What gametype are you playing this on? What are the CPU settings? How long do the DMRs and NRs take to respawn? How many spare clips do they have? Can you get up an overhead picture of the map to make the layout easier to grasp? Are those two teleporters in the first pic connected to each other (I couldn't tell because of bad grammar)? If so, they're really lazy. Also, forgers tend to use those bridge medium pieces upside down so that they allow players to drop down more easily. Honestly, even though I know you mentioned that the walls were temporary, they're ugly and distracting. It's kinda hard to concentrate on the layout of the map when it has no coherent piece usage. If you want recommendations, some of the most common wall pieces are the brace, large and the wall, coliseum. Also worth mentioning are bridges and ramps.
Gametype wise, I'm planning to Slayer modes, one with ARs/DMRs/NRs as a standard load out , the other will feature swords. I've not decided on the CPU yet, but the former game type will like make the player tougher but slower. As for the teleporters, they are not connected to eachother, they are connected to the bridge that is shown as the last picture. Finally, the walls, the problem is that it's hard to find the midpoint of the two extremes of this map, you can either leave the walls as they are looking ugly, or you can get rid of them and leave the map bare in a sense. It's just hard to find that balance between the amount of walls you have and the areas where there are no walls present. Another problem is with the map size and all the bridges and tunnels on the map, it's hard to get the walls look neat. Personally, I don't like building internal compact maps, I prefer building more open, larger maps. Hence my first attempt of making these types of map. Feel free to put additional comments.
You could put in other pieces. Walls don't have to be ugly. They're both connected to the one teleporter? Or am I missing something..?
There are four teleporters, the two in the first picture connect to the two in the last picture on the bridge. For example the teleporter in the first picture on the right will connect to the teleporter that is cleanly seen on the bridge. And what could be good to make better walls that are overall neater? [br][/br]Edited by merge: Heres an top-down overview of Sacrement without the roof or the tunnels.
Are the tunnels accessible areas? if so, you should try and keep them. I can immediately see a flaw. There are no hard routes up to the teleporter area top mid. I'll look at this more, but it looks like the layout's very flawed. Plus, there are so few spawnpoints. Add some more One other thing. Set your spawns to neutral (except the initial spawns) and don't face the initials toward a wall. Makes for double the spawning points for each player, as 1v1 maps don't generally have "sides". I'll add more to this post later..
You need to go through the tunnels to get to the centre. And you NEED the teleporters to get to the bridge top mid.
You should include the tunnels in your overview, then. The point is, there should absolutely never never ever be a place on your map that can only be reached by teleporters, by gravity lift, or by mancannon. That's why the bridge is broken. The map also lacks any significant height variation, minus the broken bridge mentioned above, which is still broken. You could fix it by removing those teleporters (which are redundant, btw. Don't make two teleporters go to the same area) and adding some hard routes up there. You should also move the custom out of that bridge's LoS and into a risky area for balance purposes. You also need more weapons on the map to counter the custom. Essentially, in pathmap terms, you've made a practically flat rectangle with a big open space inside. I understand you tried with the ramp bridges, but it won't work. Scrap the sword gametype. Honestly, it sounds more like a minigame than a slayer gametype. And what type of slayer are you going to use? ZB/MLG, classic, smackdown? Or something else? If you're looking for good maps, you should check out these: Smackdown Contest Finalists http://www.forgehub.com/forum/announcements/140413-1v1-smackdown-forge-contest-finalists.html Angst by xzamplez http://www.forgehub.com/forum/featured-maps/140007-angst.html
Strongly disagree. There is no universal rule in map design. It's all conditional. I actually like the tele bridge, but I believe the problem is the placement of the sender. If you were to put it in a location where the person that holds the bridge can see the opposite player cross their line of site (then give the player infront of the teleporter an option (alternate route)), then the person holding the bridge can choose to jump off, or stare at the teleporter. The telebridge should have very limited line of sight. It should not be able to see into the outer hallways, or the opposite room. Whichever room the bridge cannot see into, should have the most beneficial item on the map. People like interior maps because it allows the creator to make their own structures.
@xzamplez I suppose your ideas are valid, but I still say he should add a hard route up. I'm making myself quite the fool today EDIT: Are you saying that there are no hard rules and the bridge is broken OR are you saying that there are no hard rules and the bridge isn't broken? I reread your post and now I'm utterly confuzzled. (I heard that's a popular word these days)
You suggestion could be an improvement as well. It's simply a different approach at fixing the problems the current tele system causes. My problem is the word "never". When it comes to map design, this word should be avoided. Every "rule" that we follow through the design process can be successfully broken. It all depends on the map.
Ah, so it's the never that you disagree with, not the bridge. Wasn't sure there. Well, assuming that the map is open to become anything in the whole wide world, there are no nevers. But assuming a competitive map (which his is, according to him), there are still no-nos that people can make. Like placing sixteen rocket launchers on one side of the map. What I mentioned before with the hard route is a lesser one of these no-nos, but I personally believe it is one of them. If you don't think so, that's fine. That's what makes variety in maps. Tell me if I didn't make sense. I wrote parts of this post at separate times over fifteen minutes.
Xamplez, (mind the spelling) I found your suggestion on the newly named telebridge bait confusing, if you could make it clearer? Personally I think the CPU is in the most risky position, besides the corridors, it can be seen everywhere on the map, you can get jumped on from the bridges, and the platform leaves you in plain sight. Leaving you vulnerable. Weapons, any ideas?
I believe he said that the player contesting bridge should have good line of sight on the sender that takes you up there. However, I think I read that wrong because that doesn't sound right at all. In fact, I think it should be the other way around in this case. I can't really tell from the pictures, but are there two teleporters on the bridge? As for weapons, I suggest you go with xzample's suggestion and move the CPU out of the bridge's LoS. You will probably want to include a weapon counter to the CPU as well. I'll download it and try to play a game tomarrow. Hopefully you fixed the spawns, haha.
Yes, but there is a difference between a "no no", and your personal preference. If I can provide successful competitive maps that have platforms with no hard route leading to them (which I can), that would prove that your statement is not universal law. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Had a feeling it would be confusing. 1. Move the sender nodes to a position in which the player entering the sender would have to cross the player on the bridge's line of sight. But next to the sender should be another option so the player heading towards the teleporter can fake the player on the bridge. 2. The custom would be best being the farthest least exposed area from the top bridge. The way you have it, a player could control the bridge, drop down when custom spawns, and repeat the process. You need to give every area of the map a purpose.
As a counter to the CPU, I will go ahead at some point and add one or two GLs, one opposite the CPU and maybe Nother on telebridge. The reason I picked the GL, is because you won't turn the map in to a giant firestorm through Other power weapons and the maps to small for some of the others, the GLs also can be anti-bridge camper weapons, clearing them when one camps, which makes it more risky. [br][/br]Edited by merge: I think I now got the message on the senders, I don't think you can see them from the telebridge because the other one is in the way but I will check that.
You have to think about the purpose of weapons/powerups: balance and movement. It would not make sense to put a GL on the bridge because it is already a powerful position. No. The main points of the sender placement is that: 1. The player heading towards the teleporter CROSSES line of sight, but cannot be seen entering the sender. 2. Next to the sender is another pathway, giving the player the option NOT to enter the teleporter. You have to realize that your first couple of maps will usually be subpar, and are all mere learning experiences. If you can identify the problem with this map, you can move on to your next map avoiding the issues present in this map, while encountering new issues. Sounds like a pain in the ass, but learning things the hard way usually prevent that mistake from ever intentionally happening again.
Sacrement V1.2 As promised, heres Sacrement authentically improved. The new weapons are also on aswell. There are: DMRs NRs ARs Plasma Repeters Granade Launchers (Spawn Time: 70 seconds, Spare Clips: 1 (2 granades each)) I've kept the genral layout on the map the same. But the walls of the map have been almost completly done up. And the corridors are now personally mcuh better. Heres the screenies: This is an Overview of the map: I've added additional spawn points and changed the position of the intaial spawns. I know that there are not alot of spawn points still, but the map is too small to permit more or in different positions. The centre of the map hasn't changed much gameplay wise. But you may notice that are aditional walls on the map, those are to block sight of the teleporters from the bridges. Here is the outside area or the 'docks', there is enough space between each platform to jump across, and there is the two teleporters to the telebridge. There are new weapons here, the two Plasma repeaters and one of two Granade Launchers. Another view of the centre, showing some more weapons and the new walls and coloured tunnels. Another part of the centre slight futher out, it is home to another Granade Laucher (and I think some DMRs). A view of the new corridors, the intial spawns have been placed at the far end of them. View of the hard bridge. And finally a view of the telebridge. The map may need some extra ajustments or improvements, so feel free to playtest it. I have not made a gametype dedicated to the map just yet, but will have one soon on the site/thread. Here is the link: File Share Halo Official Site Please give comments on the improved Sacrement, thanks!
Firstly, @xzamplez You're correct. If you have any, I'll surely take a look at them. Now, back on topic. You've made dead ends to put the initial spawns in. The initial spawns are fine themselves, but later on in the game, players could run into those dead ends looking for an escape route and get frustrated. You might want to close off the dead ends and move the initial spawns further up, or add a back route into that docks area. I like the new hallways without the glass a LOT better. You may want to be careful with your use of the bridge, longs, and bridge, XLs (I think that's what they're called - not completely sure). Anyway, I've heard that overuse of those bridges can cause framerate because they have glass on them. It doesn't look like you've spammed them, so you should be fine. I like those colored tunnels in the fourth picture, but it looks like there are too many weapons there in close proximity. I like your aesthetic choices in general, minus those walls. They have lights on them (framerate), but I don't think you really need to worry about that as the map's small. I would still suggest adding some kind of third route up to the bridge, especially since it now has a DMR (people can stay up there and let it respawn). I do really like your addition of grenade launchers as anti-camp weapons. A possible third idea would be a jump from the hard bridge (although that would require raising the ceiling). As a final note, I do like that you chose to include a view of forgeworld that doesn't break immersion. Again, I should have been more clear with this - some views are great and some views are.. not so great . Views + terrain + water can add variety to your map. There was a map.. Sovereign? I think it was. Did that very nicely. I didn't like the one on Echoes because you could see.. well.. the whole world. Again, that's not always bad. It just didn't look correct to me in your case. Bah. I can't find the link.. sorry.