TLDR: you need to understand the value of engineering. Apple invents things, it holds many, many patents. How many of those they use, I don't know. But the fact is that Apple's engineering is among the top in the world. A computer isn't the inventions or the sum of it's parts, it's a beautiful machine that's ENGINEERED. That case, is engineered. The choice of products to use, the way they are used and integrated, the choice of parts, and so on, is the art of engineering. Engineering isn't coming up with everything yourself, and in Apple's case, they tend to get a lot of new, underused tech and bring it to the larger world's attention. You'd be surprised by the sheer volume of information and possibilities given to you as an engineer, every OS limits what you can do significantly - a part of the engineer's job is to put the possibilities into something useful, and to make it make as much sense as possible. I think OS X does that better than Windows. And you are indeed paying a large extra sum for what Apple gives you - better support, nicer quality, and most of all, good engineering is expensive. That's why engineers get good salaries. Another point is, to those in the work force (such as myself) - aesthetics are VITAL. I've watched an interview where the guy pulled out his Macbook Air and got his presentation started extremely professionally, and you know what that gets you? A job. It goes with the tailored suit, the shined shoes, and the haircut. If you're professional, you understand that looks matter. Apple has beautiful aesthetics, something no other computer company I have yet to see comes even close to. A last point is brand name recognition - just like having an expensive suit will help you, so will having an expensive computer brand. It shows that you're classy, that you can handle your money, it's all part of the business world. Anyway, the main point - a computer is not the sum of its parts.
If my job hung in the balance because of the impression of something I owned, then the world has really gone to ****. Apple is not inventive, it is innovative on one principle alone. It delivers products that consumers want. That's it. That is the only thing good I will ever learn from Steve Jobs. "Think like the consumer". Past that, he was an egotisitical prick who ripped people off. Certainly not someone to look up to for his ethics, which Apple, sadly, has adopted. They are not a forward thinking company. They take existing ideas and improve them. It's a successful model, but not something I would praise. And again, if I was ever denied a job based on the quality of my clothes or assets, then **** YOU. Well, I would be thankful too, because that would probably be a shithole job. Can you imagine working under someone who makes hiring decisions or at least decisions influecend by consumerist values? Definitely someone who is idiotic. It's already happening though, that train of thought is sadly gaining momentum. Several employers in the U.S. think people are weird of they are not connected to social media. EDIT: Insane understand the value of common ****ing sense. Yeesh, if I whipped out a chrome **** would you suck it? I mean come on!? I'm stretching what you're saying, since obviously we wouldn't take that idea to the extreme, but you get my point. Aethestic design shouldn't be the determining factor in purchasing your computor. (Side note, you're merging two aspects of Apple's success into one. There is the engineering bit, where Apple builds the hardware to serve the software. And the aethestic design, not anything engineering related.) I have a comp worth $450 and it can do exactly what a $2000 Mac, can. Now tell me, who got the greater value? It's a rhetorical question, don't bother answering. No, you paid for name brand, deal with it. People want macs to say that have a mac.
Yeah, I have to agree with both Oli and rusty that Apple really don't invent much. What they do is craft. Well, if we're talking in hardware terms. They're more inventive in terms of their OS, I maintain that they've been miles ahead in trackpad terms for ages, which sounds smaller than it is when you consider the big move towards laptops in the past few years. But even then, they didn't invent the trackpad, nor did they really invent touch gestures. With the latter, they seriously advanced them, taking them from basically a gimmick to something that helps define the OS X experience, but I'd still be cautious about using the word "invent." I agree that they engineer, that's what I was talking about with the RnD element, but that's not necessarily the same thing as inventing, and I disagree that the latter defines them. I too would be incredibly depressed if the name on my computer (for the sake of name alone, rather than them looking and thinking "he has the right tools for this job") impacted even slightly upon how I was perceived in an interview. However, rusty, as per usual you've stacked up some decent points and then shot yourself in the foot with an attempt at rhetorically concise criticism at the end: I seriously doubt your initial claim. What computer is this? And as I said before, what it can "do" is a stupidly reductive statement. I could walk up to someone with a Latitude and say "I've got a cheap as **** Advent laptop that can do the exact same as your much more expensive Latitude." But then they'd pick up the Dell, and smash my weak little Advent in to a pile of dust, or even just wait the 3 months it'll take to kill itself. As for this: Sigh. True of plenty, but not all, especially the various professional sectors which use macs for good reason. You think a music studio gives a **** what logo is on the machine under their desk, that no one even sees? You think the same about graphics firms? A cheap shot, and sorry but it kinda falls flat on its face. Hipsters are annoying, we get it, that's not really the point here.
If I want to sit on my porch and yell angrily, dagummit I will. (Well **** you peg, I know you're thinking "well rusty then no ones going to listen to you" **** you I know that and ****ity ****ity **** you, you better be laughing at the nonsense at this point like my perceived notion of you is and if you're not well then, your teeth suck and a pigeon could perch in between your front ones, I'm from planet Mars, **** your logic, it's boring ;P) As for my comp, it probably has a market value of around $600-800, but I waited for good deals. No it doesn't have the outright processing power of a $2000 mac. I can give full specs when I can, but it doesn't really matter. My apologies on the rhetoric, but sometimes I can't help but be brash. At least give me the chrome ****. C'mon. (I really change tones when I write)
It's not about having the right tools for the job, it's about being professional. Just like a brand name pressed white shirt and a tailored brand name suit make you look professional, there's a lot to presentation. It's not what I'm good at, personally, but I've experienced it and seen it. Yes, it does matter. It's not that if your skills aren't fantastic you won't get a job... but if you present yourself right, your chances increase quite a bit. Apple has an aesthetic that does help that professional look. That's what I mean. And yes, engineering and aesthetics has a lot to do with each other, this is a key aspect of any basic engineering class.
lol Peg, what was all that about? If you actually care about the hardware side of things, you probably won't be buying a laptop, much less a Mac. I don't see what you're getting at. And Insane, a computer is very much the sum of its parts. Apple's tendency is to make you ignore the parts by discouraging individual upgrades and encouraging the purchase of a brand new device every time yours fails, but that doesn't make the parts go away. Apparently, you've already bought into that way of thinking, though. In any case, if you just bought a laptop and already want to upgrade, you probably made the wrong choice, that's all.
I got you ;P. Clothes play a very minor part of your hiring process. You want to make good impressions with people, but just having a confident, good-spirited demeanor will help much more than any amount of money spent on assets and clothes. That's just me being nit-picky, but that's how I've gotten all my jobs. I just wouldn't have used that example of the apple totin' man in the suit as a cornerstone of your argument. It conveys the idea that luxury items are keys to success. Obviously they don't and I know you don't hold that to be true, but they are people that probably do.
No, it's not. I could put together parts, but I don't have the engineering skills of Apple. I've put together lots of computers, in fact. Look at practically any computer. It WILL have a problem. Apple's put a lot of effort into choosing its parts, putting them together right, etc etc. You have to understand where engineering fits into this. I have been using Macs, Windows, and Linux distros extensively since I was roughly 7, and Apple has NEVER encouraged buying a new device. Apple's cared for my old iBook, my iPod nano, even my iPod mini recently, without a second glance. Apple's incredibly good about keeping a good product cycle, bringing out a great product, and always sticking to fantastic engineering. Any given upgrade is cheaper done myself rather than on the HP website ($70 rather than $150 for the screen, for example). I have the money, but it's more of a fun discussion - I don't really plan on any upgrades, at least yet. But it's fun to discuss @Rusty: You're right, I'm not saying that that isn't the most important part. It's like a professional gamer - the important part is his skills, and about presenting it himself and being confident. The accessories are important though. He could win a game without them, but they will help his success.
Maybe you don't encounter problems with Apple devices because their lifespan is so short. Whether its through actual failure or the time between new releases, you're expected to keep buying the latest version. Even the "geniuses" will tell you just to upgrade over fixing whatever might be wrong with your device. It may only be implied, but as I said, they only want you to think of the device in black and white terms. To be clear, this has obviously been a successful business model, but as a practical guy, I'll never take part in it.
That's not true at all, to be honest. People with the money to upgrade, do so. However, you are absolutely not expected to upgrade. In fact, their lifespan has proven, in my fairly extensive experiences, to be significantly greater, and their support and Genius Bar has been incredibly good, among the best customer support I've ever had. How much of this do you know from experience, if I may ask?
*runs to put in signature* *has no room* Anyways, I actually think the job analogy is a very good one. Like it or loath it, good end jobs require you to look like you know what you are doing. Tell me, have you ever judged somebody with a HUUGE tattoo on their arm, or a tramp stamp, etc etc? And whilst true, it might cost you a job, but: a) If you don't have a job, then you don't have a mac. b) I doubt that they will be looking at the ins and outs of your laptop. In fact, it may be detrimental because they are too busy looking at the shinies than your cute little bow tie and adorable baby face of a serial killer. c) If you are using a projector, what if it isn't compatable with your mac? That's more of a job coster D: And if you are planning on doing a heart surgery, we all know that having a surgery that looks good doesn't re-assure the patient when they see that the model of their heart has caused things to stop working :O. So form is too needed over being stylish at times. On the subject of being stylish, did you know that Apple invented the wedge shape used in the macbook? Because it has NOTHING to do with these at all:
Oh look another mac user. But srsly, totally unrelated; My mac may be 7 years old and only able to hold 4gb of RAM tops, but damn, it runs faster now than it did when I first got it, and thats with a second screen plugged in as well. Hows that for reliability? Has never broken down or stopped working permanently. I have had a few bugs here and there, but what computer hasn't? Meanwhile I think my friend has gone through about 3 new windows based computers in that time. p.s: If i'd had money I would bought something new a while ago. :/ p.s.s: Im someone who uses my mac for proper reasons, not just because I wanted to say I have a mac.
My 7 year old Dell Inspiron 530 that I used to edit on, that got taken apart and rebuilt twice, and had RAM installed still ticks along. Nothing is built to last now. It pisses me off. The £80 dell monitor we got was 21.5 inch, and has a metal plate. The Dell a525 speakers (which are actually INCREDIBLY good) were made of metal. The dell AY410s that I have are now made of plastic that bends slightly. And my £90 monitor wobbles because it is made of plastic. ARGH!
I totally agree. One of the only things that REALLY bothers me about this computer is the choice of some cheaper parts, especially the speakers. "Beats Audio", uh huh. The sound quality on this computer is horrendous. The soundcard itself isn't very good either, it's just overall terribly chosen cheap parts to save a few bucks, it's really sad. There's this giant speaker bar all the way across the top of the main part and all the way across the bottom of the screen, but it still sounds terrible. It's just a choice of cheaper parts. HP is also well known for making batteries with a gel that kind of burns off after the warranty. HP also tries to grab money however it can with upgrades - stuff that should be standard (backlit keyboard), is an "extra". And now that I'm without my Macbook, I'm realizing how important that backlit keyboard is at times. I mean, there's some of that that you know is part of engineering - anything can be made technically perfect in terms of aesthetics, performance, durability, price... but that will cost the other areas significantly, so it's a balancing act. Unfortunately, rather than make a good balance, it seems like a lot of companies would rather cut corners than work on a better method to make an overall good computer. Similar behavior happened in the US car market, which led to a lot of buying higher quality cars from foreign companies. And that was well put, Crypppy. Ive always felt like my Macs have serviced me far more than almost any other brand in anything. Hell, my sister's using my old iBook 05 now just fine (still serviced by Apple whenever anything goes wrong), and my old iPod Touch 1st gen (also still serviced)
Eh, I have my Pro as my main tower (in fact I'm typing this off the 8-core I just bought today from eBay), but there are plenty of times when I need a laptop because I'm not at home. I do a lot of my video work at the school where I work, in fact that's the main reason I actually got off my ass and started learning it, and if I didn't have my Macbook there I'd be forced to either use my office PC which just wouldn't work as an option, or try to use one of the school Macbooks. They have a 2010 MBP that's pretty nice, but I'm barely ever able to use it and wouldn't be able to set it up my way since it's not really meant for me to use. Basically, I find it incredibly useful having both. I'd hate to be without my MBP, but I'd also really prefer if it wasn't my only machine. And it wasn't just hardware spec, but with laptops is also very much about the hardware as a whole. In terms of my personal preference, I actually feel there's a greater disparity between how much I like using a Macbook, and how much I like using even the nicest Windows laptops I've used, than there is between using my Pro and a desktop PC. This is partly down to ease of use with things like the trackpad, though since I just got a Magic Mouse with this new machine today I've started to enjoy using my desktop more so I can see that changing. But also just the solidity of the hardware, more important in terms of laptops than desktops.
I've used my local Apple store for help with my outdated iPod as well as various accessories, and I received none even after telling them what was likely wrong with it. I couldn't really expect much more, though, considering these products aren't really designed to be popped open for repairs or part replacement. An old friend of mine works there, too. He's been a bit more honest about their practices than the others, but even he suggested I just get something newer with the help of several discounts he could get for me. Yes Peg, those into graphic design have sort of adopted Macs as their primary tools, so it's to be expected. Outside of adjusting to a specific industry's standard, however, I see little reason to use one. The second part of your post is just wishy-washy personal preference. You may be able to find a few legitimate reasons for using a laptop, even an Apple one, but realistically, most people's mobile needs can be met with an inexpensive tablet, if not just a smartphone.
One thing i've discovered that is VERY interesting is that on the ipods and iphones (or according to various websites any apple flash devices) is that the battery is non-removable and cannot be replaced as it is soldered onto the mobo. My 2nd gen Non MC iPod Touch barely holds a charge anymore, and I can't replace it or repair it. There is no Mac store in Leeds, or anywhere around leeds. It's infuriating.
There's also the issue that istuff starts to shut off at higher battery levels randomly as it gets older (ie. the week the warranty expires). Of course a computer thread would turn into a mac vs. pc argument.