Granted, you're frequently going to be matched up with a few novice players no matter what your team's skill is in Reach MM, but you have to understand that not every player uses something as nonsensically as the players that attract the most attention. I would expect someone to say that no matter where you jetpack, you cannot strafe, hover perfectly or strafe vertically (with as little movement as there is in normal ground strafing), which is essential for popping in and out of cover when skilled enemies kill you much more quickly than novice players would, because of better aiming and awareness. This is a difficulty that I encounter when trying to pop out in unexpected places in 85% or ZB against good players on asylum and boardwalk. Of course a 4 player jetpack team on asylum would not do as well as a team in which the sniper or shotgun users use different AAs. A team on Uncaged that is not as good at shooting as many targets as much as possible as the opposing team is will not fare well with Jetpacks which necessarily expose them to more players for slightly longer than Sprint. On maps like Boneyard and Utopie, whether you use Jetpacks to do unexpected things in battle or not, you would be foolish not to use them to quickly get to cover (the opposite of other maps) in the refinery, bulkheads or thin strip which connects them (Boneyard) or parts of the mountain (Utopie/Paradiso). When traversing gaps you just have to make sure that no one is focusing on that gap before you cross, just as you would have to in any BTB map (or non BTB map). You cite players who frequently jetpack as high as possible and expose themselves to as many players as possible as examples that it is not useful in competitive matches. I think Jetpacks as loadouts could work on maps which were designed for them, but not for maps like Asylum or Uncaged.
Agreed about those two maps, and some others as well (actually, IMO most of Reach's set of maps). As for designing maps for Jetpack, it can be done but I really don't think it should be done because it tends to limit maps to mostly room based to prevent kill-zone abuse, shortcuts galore and other issues, while making platform maps really really difficult to execute. Some of Halo's best maps have been platform maps (I cite Guardian and Lockout) and making those and other maps a lot less viable and more restricted isn't something I would like to see. I suppose there could be other great designs, but I don't want to see Forgers forced once again to consider every possible path a jetpacker could take when designing maps. I think something like a double jump (preferably more like a 1.7x jump) would be better, being that it would be a faster option which cannot be spammed, would not break maps as easily and could be more viable on a good deal of maps without completely negating ground terrain.
I actually made a map specifically for jetpack use, but due to its overly complex design and resulting framerate problems (sigh) I had to give it up. Plus in the limited tests we ran, I don't think it would have worked the way I wanted, anyway - it seemed like a good idea but ended up being very hard to navigate while under fire. Basically it was a multi-platform map, with man cannons to take you between them, but jetpack being equally useful and allowing you to approach from other angles.
With a use as limited as a double jump, only a very few small maps with an unusual amount of "tactical" double jumps would encourage their use. It might be used by some players on Asylum (if sprint was included as if it was H4) for getting up to ring and the four walkways around it quickly, provided that they are the types of players who didn't like AAs, used only sprint in Reach, and therefore would have no other preference for AAs that drastically changed their gameplay. It would eliminate its use on boardwalk, uncaged, utopie, boneyard, spire, etc. I doubt it would even be used to get to top-mid on guardian, or that it could make the distance to get to top mid on H4's haven through the drop-down slits. I think that if the player trait zones were used in place of or with current killzones, every map could be "designed for the jetpack". For example, For Asylum, a very slow speed/no AA usage trait zone could be put juse above the upper ring frame across the entire map to act as a cieling. Not every map would have such a simple trait zone solution, but its main use would be the same as current soft kills for jetpackers.
It would limit jetpack use in the sense of scaling different parts of the map, yes, and maybe a 1.7x jump would be a bit underwhelming. Maybe more like 2.3 or something, but honestly, the numbers aren't as important as the idea. I like a double jump solution because while it does limit (fairly, I believe) jetpack usage in regards to map pathing, it makes the other jetpack uses you mentioned earlier (avoiding CQB, avoiding explosives, better vertical strafing) a lot more plausible, altering the role of jetpack as a whole. It would be more equivalent to a distant cousin of its Reach rendition in terms of usage. Even with a ceiling of sorts on some maps, drop-downs, man-cannon jumps and other platforms that are not meant to be crossed all have to reconsider their overall design based on this one gameplay element. For example, maps like Construct could see a lot of jetpack abuse (particularly in top mid and the two sides overlooking it) and I don't see how you could really stop that without arbitrary zones placed everywhere. It just seems to me like it limits the type of maps that can be created the way it stands now. If a good trait solution could be found for every case, which I see as highly unlikely, I would reconsider. As it stands, I think it really limits what you can do to control movement and create order around a map.
Pretty sure you did. It was called The Stacks and it was designed as a one-flag map - also sort of like a very different take on Pinnacle. It actually had a really interesting layout, one of the strangest things I ever tried to make, but I think it was just too weird of an idea to work.
I understand that you won't be able to give an exact number, but I think you would agree that the number would need a lot of deliberation if it were to be judged for use on existing maps, because you would really have to be aware of every single jump that could be made from one area to another and decide which jumps shouldn't be made, many of which will be similar in distance. The procedure for coming up with a height that you think would be good for most forge (or non-forge) maps yet to be made wouldn't be as formulaic. Any double jump could create challenges for a forger with a strict mindset for "map pathing", because increasing the distance of a gap or difference in height by a factor of 2 to prevented unwanted jumps (if the gap just barely couldn't be traversed) would be impossible without making walking distances longer for other areas. Such forgers who want to be able to determine every pathway will not allow any type of jetpack in their map's reccomended gametype. Your point about not being able to use trait zones to stop every jump a player would want to make is a good point, but if that's what you're looking for, no jetpack is going to solve that problem. To consider both ideas without a strict viewpoint, the jetpack would certainly be less powerful if you could make, let's say, any jump that you would want to make on guardian, but you couldn't jump two floors on countdown or swordbase at once. The jumps that could be made would be a bit more spatially intuitive to players who aren't familiar with the possibilities allowed by the current jetpack. But the areas that you would be able to reach with a full jetpack and appropriate trait zones would be areas that could be reached without a jetpack, so from a player perspective, seeing someone jetpack up a drop-down or across a gap would be only as bothersome as if there was a corner (that someone could pop out of) or floor (that someone could move across) in that same spot. Analyzing this ability from a mapmaker's perspective is of course different. Areas that can be reached by jetpacking but not jumppacking are more likely to be harder to reach in any way, and are most likely to be susceptible to inadequate flow. If the map does offer ways to easily get there, the ability to jetpack there wouldn't be too useful, nor would it drastically increase traffic. Again, there are ways in which a full jetpack is not compatible with the desired flow, regardless of how anyone may look at it, but removing the ability to make longer distance jumps doesn't seem like such a good solution for those maps that it should be useless on anything but small maps. Longer jumps take more time, and as long as the mapmaker does not allow long jetpack routes to be concealed (in construct, countdown, and swordbase all long jetpack jumps are exposed), they will be balanced by the fact that they won't end up surprising anyone and that they may be shot by enemies they weren't focusing on. A height sensitive radar helps players become aware of possible upcoming jetpackers as well. In Construct there are three lifts and a couple of other walkways connecting the two levels. The jetpack space in the middle is more exposed to fire than any other way up, so it would likely only be taken if the lifts have all been blocked. If the lifts have been blocked, shouldn't there be another quick way up? Notice that the two "streets" which would be the landings for jetpackers also have a line of sight on each other, so it wouldn't be unnatural to look across the gap (or below). If one thought that the lifts should be the only quick ways to get up, possibly because they want their control to be a major tactical goal, and allowed only a double jump pack instead, the double jump pack would never be selected by players, because the only significant jump would be from street to sniper spawn. With respect to combat uses, the fact that a player can hover is not what gives them a frustrating advantage, and extreme heights (at least those that are not decided to be blocked by trait zones) only serve to expose that player to more targets. Moreover, if you are close to an enemy and he double jumps, your only option is the same as it was if it were a jetpack: try as best you can to aim upwards, because if you don't do any damage by the time the player falls back into your view, you will have lost that battle, assuming that the jumppacker could aim down as well as he could in a comparable hypothetical jetpack scenario. If the jumppacker couldn't shoot you in the double jump time, the same player wouldn't be able to shoot you in the same time with a jetpack; the only difference would be that against a jetpacker you would simply have to aim up eventually, but according to how well the jetpacker can aim down. To put it another way, an enemy jetpacker does not require you to have a greater aiming superiority to your opponent than an enemy jumppacker would (assuming that the jump/jetpacker's advantage of knowing when to look down before they need to requires the non-user to have superior aiming skill to have an even chance of winning), unless you cannot aim upwards at all. The best outcome would be both a jumppack and a jetpack for custom games, but for MM, a jetpack with trait zones wouldn't be very unbalanced or frustrating.
Oh ya The Stacks. I actually liked the map. Just not the gametypes we played on it. I think it would have worked better for a classic style gametype. Its too bad it had framerate. Perhaps you could remake it in H4?
It would be tough - about 1/3 of the map was natural Forge World geometry. I might be able to do something similar though. It would need some significant revisions to make it a little easier to navigate.
DO IT. Stacks was great, and honestly the Nat Geo part was my least liked. Also i would prefer less grav lifts. I think you had 8... Also, anything new on Halo 4 out there guys? Kind of getting off topic here. I keep seeing 'new post on Halo 4 Discussion' and I'm like "I'mma read that to learn new stuff!" but nope. We are discussing jetpacks and an unreleased map. It's all fine with me- I just figured I would point that out.
We have seen Female Spartans, the Fuel Rod Gun, and the Forerunner Grenade. All for you to view in this Spanish Halo 4 Video: Halo 4 - Gameplay Granada Prometea, Modelo de Chica Spartan - YouTube
At 11:00 Halo 4 News - Full Spartan Ops Match & Promethean EMP Grenade Gameplay - YouTube At 2:10 Halo 4 News - Spartan Ops Mission Inc. Fuel Rod Gun / Forerunner Grenade - YouTube
I imagine it takes down shields and has an EMP effect. Hopefully it can disable AAs for a short time.
Holy crap there actually was new stuff. The new grenade looks promising. I was a bit afraid it would be too similar to a past one (Like the spike was to the sticky). Looks great and if it does have an EMP effect (I assume there are no grounds for this case? just a guess, no?) that would make it a powerful weapon to combat vehicles. Perhaps it is meant for vehicles and sheilds, but poor against the health bar if this is so? If no I imagine a damage over time in the radius, dealing good damage to both shields and health but nothing particularly strong. Maybe it slows enemies or stuns them too?