I remade Lockout because I felt I could bring back the map we all knew and loved. I don't regret the time I took in remaking this map and I have made many side projects that I haven't finished but I always came back to Lockout because it is the project I fully committed to since Halo Reach's release. If you take Zero Bloom settings with the proper speed, jump height, gravity, and remove armor abilities, you have a similar and very enjoyable playing experience. Until you play this map with these settings and with 8+ people, you don't truly know how much this map plays like the original. and PS: I spent this much time because Lockout was my favorite and most memorable map. I do not brag when I say how much time I spent working with concepts on this map, I am only telling you facts. [br][/br]Edited by merge: With this conversation between me and LD, unless he has something productive to say, I'm ending it with quotes that people have said towards me and my map: Many people see the hard work I've put into this map and appreciate what I have created for them. They also see why this map stands out to other Lockout remakes. PS: I'd also like to state that my map has been selected by SUDD0TH 2 to be apart of his CGL tournament.
Don't get me wrong, I respect the work you've put in your map, the forging is very clean and I know that I wouldn't be able to remake even the most simple map on the correct scale. Your map is very well forged and the best reach lockout I've seen. It's the concept of remaking something I don't get. I just wanted to understand why you remade it.
Well just so you understand, this is something I was committed to ever since the beginning of Reach's release. My goal was simple: to bring back the experience that Lockout brought to Halo 2 as accurate as possible while learning how to forge. I looked at every remake I could find of Lockout only to notice that each one missed something important or meaningful so i decided to make a full commitment in doing it myself.
I stand on the same ground as LD, as far as remakes go. You do not declare how a discussion ends, especially by using quote from non-forgers. You could have made a much less accurate remake, and I'll bet these quote would remain. People always pay extra attention to remakes, because their too closed minded to try new layouts. And from repeated personal experience, pros are idiots, and don't know **** about what makes a good competitive map, which is why Onslaught (Midship), Element (Warlock), and The Pit (The Pit) has been in the circuit throughout the majority of Halo: Reach.
Well I can decide not to continue participating in the discussion which would be the same as ending it considering you need two people to have one but that's besides the point. As far as I see, I haven't seen a Lockout remake that offers what mine has to offer. He gave a single example of a remake: Eclipse, in which I gave examples to why this map isn't an accurate Lockout recreation. MLG Pros may not be great forgers but they do play maps more than anyone which goes back to my original point that this map plays very much like the original.
We get it, you think your map is the best Lockout remake (not saying it isn't, but I digress). But seriously, we should all just drop this discussion because otherwise this whole thread will turn into one big argument about why your's is supposedly the best.
I'm not saying that mine is the best either. I am not conceited like that. This entire argument was made because apparently some people think that it's pointless to remake a map which has already been remade many times before and that apparently it is impossible to make a remake feel very close to the original. I will gladly end this discussion.
If this is true then you haven't been working on concepts for over two years, just sayin. Congratz getting this featured on Waypoint btw.
No, you should have said on and off for 2 years, that's so people don't get the impression that you were not working on it daily. Feature on Waypoint? No way! They featured a map that was originally designed by the previous owners of the game? Who woulda thought? That's just as surprising as Select making it into matchmaking because of its striking resemblance to Narrows. What a wonderful world we live in where you get rewarded for duplicating someone else's work, and ignored for originality.
What is your problem? You have no idea how much time I spent creating and working with the concepts for this map. Considering if you look at my map history with former versions and re-released versions. I have released 21 different versions. I have no reason to lie to you or anyone. I have worked on this map consistently enough to be considered thorough not even counting the deleted concepts I never released. I took the time and effort to accurately recreate a map considering framerate, jumps, most things people love from a map that was one of the most played maps in history.. and you act like it's nothing. Lockout is a map that is no longer playable over Xbox Live besides Blackout on Halo 3 which plays completely different. Some of you seem to be judging my map without even testing it with proper settings or giving me another map that you believe is forged more accurately. Some of us would rather bring back a piece of our gaming history before spending the same amount of time on a unique/random map not saying that I wouldn't do so. In fact, I've worked on side projects such as forge art screenshots and random map concepts that I just haven't committed to finish. Now that I have Lockout down, if I feel like It and when I'm ready, I will move on to another concept.
Jeez guys, please cut this crap. We're not talking about how to solve the greenhouse effect here, we're talking about how long it took someone to forge a freaking map and have other people disagreeing with that. ಠ_ಠ Seriously, give the man a break and leave some positive feedback on his map instead of dashing the fact that he remade Lockout, just because of remaking Lockout, and not because of how good his map actually is.
Thank you and I can't agree more. This website is about forging maps and people post maps here to receive criticism, feedback, and to share their maps which some of them have much work put into them. My final comment on this is that just because a map has been remade a thousand times doesn't mean that it has been made accurate to the original. You never know, maybe my map could bring back the feeling of playing Halo 2 Lockout again more than you'd think possible. Lets stop all of this chatter filled with nonsense and start giving me useful criticism.
@Bold: What do you mean more work? It doesn't matter how much time you spent copying somebody's work, all that matters is the final result. @Underline: What criticism could we give you that you couldn't get from looking at Lockout? You don't seek criticism, you seek praise.
I said much work, meaning a lot of, not more. There's a difference between copying and recreating. Not all recreated works are accurate to the original. A copy is always accurate unless the copy itself is modified. I seek criticism on my recreated work and if there are those who appreciate my work, sure they can give me praise. PS: and apparently you don't understand that many players value Halo Reach maps that are accurate and true to the original and that there are thousands of maps that are poorly made when it comes to either framerate or concept. If you don't understand why I would recreate a map, you probably shouldn't be here.
A difference between copying and recreating? You only recreate because you cannot literally copy the map. But to copy the map is your goal when remaking it. There is no criticism anybody can give you. Criticism is for maps that need improvement. The only "improvement" in a remake is making it more accurate to the original. Like I said: You seek praise. I praise the lead designers of Lockout, not somebody who attempts to duplicate their work.
And if I could copy the map into Halo Reach and Halo 4, I would, but I can only recreate the map. Bungie gave us the ability to forge maps, so I worked hard to bring back a similar playing experience. How can you not give me criticism? Are you trying to tell me that anyone who tries to remake a map doesn't deserve criticism? What is your issue? Seriously? This is a Halo 3/Reach Forge community site. You're telling me that even though I worked hard in replicating this map which was one of the most played maps in history and is no longer playable on Xbox Live, that I don't deserve criticism for the way I forged the map, criticism to whether the map plays like the original, or criticism on anything of the map because it is not the original Lockout? Remaking maps happens to be one of the hardest things to do accurately using Forge because we have to look back at what made the map popular while maintaining framerate and many important little details that everyone remembers. How does a remake not deserve the same amount of criticism as a unique map? Like I've stated before, even if a map has been remade thousands of times, it doesn't mean that it has been made with everything important in mind. If you're seriously going to tell me that my map doesn't deserve criticism because it is a remake, why are you here? I'm sure I've made enough valid points so, either give me constructive criticism or kindly leave my thread.
Remaking a map is time consuming, not difficult. Criticism and constructive criticism are two very different things. Criticism: I like/hate this map. Constructive criticism: You should make this section more like Lockout. When somebody designs and forges a map, they post it here for a multitude of reasons, most importantly feedback, so they can improve the map. There is no perfect form of an original creation, which is why feedback is important. But a remake does have a perfect form: The original creation. Therefore, there is no constructive feedback that anybody could give you that you could not get from looking/walking through the original creation, in this case Lockout. If you still don't understand why constructive criticism is pointless for a remake, then I guess we are done here. If you ever post your own creation, then I will leave you some constructive criticism.
Most things that take time to build are also difficult. If it wasn't difficult, people would be making perfect remakes in no time at all. You can give constructive criticism on forge pieces used and on if the map plays like the original based on spawning, areas of the map, design, weapon placement, game types, and framerate. Just because the original creation is perfect doesn't mean you can't give constructive criticism in improving a remake of that map to be more like the original and to play without issues. Why can't you understand?
There appears to be a lot of miscommunication going on in this argument right now. Lemme try and clear a few things up; Time-consuming does not necessarily mean difficult. For example, it takes a very long time to, say, count to a million. Without stopping, it would take several days to count to a million. That doesn't mean it's difficult; in fact, if you had the time and the motivation to do so, it would be very easy. However, most people don't want to spend the time to count to a million, for obvious reasons. It's the same idea with remakes; because the most difficult part is already done for you (the design), the rest of the work is simply time-consuming, not necessarily difficult. This is the one point where I disagree with xzample. A different perspective is a very useful tool, especially when it comes to remakes. Walking around on the original isn't going to help you decide which objects to use, it just tells you proportions and angles. You misinterpreted xzample's statement; he wasn't saying that Lockout was perfect, and I think he would agree when I say that Lockout has its fair share of problems, just like any map. Rather, he was saying that an original creation has no barometer by which to measure perfection, since no map is perfect. In the case of a remake, though, there is an ideal model by which perfection can be measured; the original map. I don't speak for him, but I believe that the only thing xzample doesn't understand is why people could take pride in remakes, when it's not their original design, their thoughts and ideas, and I agree with him to an extent.