Woah, this thread has really taken off. I guess I'll say some stuff and introduce myself: I was for the most part raised Christian, and for a lot of my childhood I was actually pretty into it, even willingly participating in religious plays and such. When I grew older however I began to question the legitimacy of what I had believed to be my guiding moral philosophy. I felt too dependent on something so trivial as Christianity. I had realized that religion was a coping mechanism for me, I prayed to God in previous years and received no results in some of the hardest moments of my life, I had placed so much faith and dependence on a spiritual medium which yielded no results, no change, not even a notice of my existence - so I shut out god just as he seemed to do for me. It felt like I was chasing and begging from an indifference. So I slowly turned to the absolute; science. Upon eighth grade I was free to write an essay on a topic of my choosing, and I chose evolution. That pretty much sealed my take on the world and on the rejection of the religion I had been force-fed since I could remember. It was in eighth grade I became an atheist, it was relieving to see my faith placed in science have an effect on the world around me. When I was upset I took my emotions head-on and got over it instead of running to a man who responded with silence, pushing me back into a cycle of hurt. I do believe I'm stronger emotionally and logically now and I must say this was the most influential revelation of my life as it deserves to be. Sorry if I'm coming off as impertinent, but that's just the timeline of my beliefs. Also there are more religions than Christianity you know
That's a nice story to read, so long as you're open-minded to other religions regardless of your faith I don't have a problem with anything you choose to believe or not believe. Yes, there are more religions, but if you can bring down Christianity, you can bring down the other big religions, Islam, and Judaism. Not to mention that Christianity is directly connected to Catholicism, Mormonism, Baptism, so on and so forth... Christianity is a big tree...
Watch'd it, they didn't come down to any assured agreement, sad to say, but I see where you're coming from, hope you could say the same to theists.
So why are you surprised to see a disagreement? You really think religious people are going to change their stance after this long? There will always be no conclusion on religious debates. Enlightenment on the topic yes, but a conclusion? Never. The point is to dissect the arguments and reason (and maybe apply Occam's razor) the information that can be deduced from further inquiry.
I hoped for a conclusion/agreement, but I'm more realistic than that, especially in a public debate like this. Still, it's sad to see. No, not really. It's not to say atheists would either. Never? That's a little harsh, but yeah, that's probably true. To the point of the occam's razor: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes." -Walt Whitman From a scientific point of view, very well, you can analyze, criticize, accept, deject, reject, all you want, but I believe that God is not black and white and it requires faith to understand things that nature cannot.
My family are Christians, but the vast majority of my family don't really believe in a God or gods. I am quite skeptical on any religion. Religion seems to be a way to get people to think similarly. What is morally right etc... However, many religions are very discriminating against other races, or gender or sexual interests (same-sex marriage or sexual intercourse before marriage is a sin) The bible is made by man, not god, so it therefore reflects the beliefs and opinions of the people writing it. I personally think we all evolved from single-cell organisms. Through the process of evolution we have adapted to our environment. Notice how the little finger is getting smaller and smaller because we don't use it, therefore we don't need it. We are also getting taller. Men on average are 5" taller than the average in the 1800's, women are on average 4" taller. What I do believe in however, is that there is something after death then just nothingness. Perhaps re-incarnation, but I'm not exactly a Buddhist, either. Thinking about that kind of scares me. What IS after death? I don't really want to know/think about it until I get there.
I'm a christian, but I'm sort of unique, there's only 4 books of the Bible I believe, the Gospels. I don't believe in the Old Testament as it contradicts what Jesus taught, and the rest of the New Testament is what man was saying, not what Jesus said. I still believe in n old Earth, and Evolution and all the scientific stuff, I just think that someone had to start the chain reaction that led to the Big Bang and everything else, and that he sort of programmed it so everything would turn out a certain way. And it doesn't make sense that an unloving God would create a world for us in which we could thrive. A cruel God might give us a world in which we could live, but make it unbearably hot or cold, here everything is balanced. So we know God is good, and a good God would give us an afterlife. All of this matches Jesus and the Father. Other religions don't have gods as loving as the Christian God. That's what I believe and why I believe it.
I really don't think you can choose what you like or not, if you believe in it you cant just pick and choose. I definitely don't see how you can reject the Old Testament and only take the New Testament; it's saying you believe in Jesus and God - but not the God of the first part. That doesn't make any sense, I'd say that's actually a lack of belief in God essentially. We're lucky to have as much free will as we like: we're on the internet, on computers, etc. There are kids the same age as you and me that are stuck without a choice, that have terrible conditions or situations, and their life is anything but something a parent (to use a common God metaphor) would give to their children, especially when they've done nothing wrong but be, for example, born from parents that society doesn't like. That's cruel...really cruel. They never did anything wrong, how can that be justified? We've evolved into our situation rather than just having popped up there, and so our climate isn't coincidentally perfect for us; we've developed for millions of years to find our climate just right. If it was unbearably cold to begin with, we would have either died out early on or developed differently - more hair, hotter body temperature, whatever. Also, the Christian God has a hell. Many religions do not have such a concept, including Judaism, which Christianity was built off of (the Old Testament, you can't not take it into account, especially historically). So does that make the Christian God "more loving"? I'd say the opposite.
"We're Christians but we don't believe in God." I don't quite understand that. I'm not flaming your guys' beliefs but I don't really understand it and am interested in hearing more about it. If you agree with some of the morals, that's understandable but that doesn't really make you Christian, does it? In order to be Christian, I figured you would have to believe in the holy trinity, the bible and what have you. Care to share more?
So you, you started out by saying "im christian" then continued with "im aethiest," and concluded with "call me agnostic" I reccomend that last one is how you should identify yourself from here out, if i understand you correctly.
I like to think that every time I break a rock, it's rock-soul either goes to a magic kingdom filled with lakes and mesas, or if the rock is evil, it goes to a quarry to be broken into pieces for all time. Or maybe the rock's soul gets reincarnated into a baby rock. Or maybe it's just a rock.
While you grow up it is customary to tell people you are the religion of your family. My dad is Catholic and my Mom Jewish. Both my parents don't actively follow or practice their religions but they aren't officially decreeing themselves as atheist because they don't care one bit about the matter. Does the label matter to you guys that much? And shuman if you want to believe when you die you become senseless dirt so be it, don't be an ass toward someone else who basically believes EVERYTHING else you do but differs on the belief of an afterlife. It doesn't harm anything, greater understanding of the universe or anything to believe in a soul.
Well, you are the one who posted in a thread which you discuss your beliefs. If you're not open to questions or get defensive when you are questioned, there's no real point in posting. From my understanding, there is supposed to be discussion... I apologize, I will now treat every one of your posts as some trivial blog post instead of having some sort of discussion with you. I was asking purely out of curiosity and misunderstanding. I wanted to learn more about what you believe because I am somewhat fascinated by others' beliefs. Prior to this thread, I hadn't really heard of a person who was a Christian but refuses to accept the most vital basis which it was formed.
It doesn't harm anything? Tell that to all the grieving parents who paid money for their unbaptised children's souls to go to heaven. It doesn't detract from an understanding of the universe? Well we'd better stop all research into neuroscience then, because obviously we all have an invisible checklist of all out deeds stapled to an "undetectable energy" that resides inside our bodies until we die like some kind of parasite, that then zips off to either be judged by an ultimate power or fly into a newborn baby. It's foolish to separate the fact that the people who believe they'll "live on" forever are the people who think it'd be nice if it were true. And they believe without proof. Always without one iota, speck, mote, or a particle of proof.