Halo Reach has been out well over a year now, having been released in September of 2010. As a community we've come a long way with our ability to use forge to create some stunning maps that look gorgeous and create great game play experiences. We've learned a lot about which pieces look great, which ones cause frame rate, and how to bring it all together. One thing that still presents itself as a major issue though is aesthetics. Some how even our most veteran of forgers are still creating excessively bland and gray maps, and frankly, there is no excuse for us to still be forging that way. What I'm making a statement against here is that we've become over reliant on pieces such as the coliseum wall. We continue to use it as flooring, walling, and ceilings. Time and time again I see maps posted where the entire thing is boxed in this sea of gray. Its ridiculous! For those of you who hate the bland sea of gray that forge has forced upon us, I created this thread for discussion as to how you work more color and aesthetics into your maps. Or you can state your argument as to why the gray is acceptable as well. Its your choice of opinion, chime in with your two cents. Personally, I try to avoid ceilings and walls whenever possible now. I forge in the gulch where pieces are given a more matte brown shading, and rail off sides rather than wall them so as to include the natural aesthetics of forge world. Little things like this go a long way in introducing additional color. I also use inclines as walling as frequently as possible as they include a lot of color. Another thing is getting creative with the flooring. My piece of choice is the Platform XXL for flooring.
I'd rather play on a 'sea of grey' over maps that have 100 different textures all over the place. That **** is distracting. Simpler is better.
Im a big fan of clean looking maps. Its my main aim when forging. When ever i forge these days I create the main bulk of my map from no more than 4 different items. usually its the Platform XXL, Brace Large, Colliseum Window and Bank 4X4. I find this helps to create a clean and clear looking map. After the main bulk is completed i then populate the rest of the map with other items whilst maintaining a clean and clear look.
I gotta say, texture mapping instead of color mapping annoys the living hell out of me. Yeah it looks pretty, but it doesn't really contribute much to player orientation because it all blends together IMO. I suppose it can be distracting as well... That never really occurred to me though.
Yeah, the simpler the better, but the sea of grey is rediculous sometimes. I think people just do it cause' they're lazy, me included. If I do use colliseum walls as walling, i'll usually have another colorful piece, like an incline, stapled on there. As for ceilings, I keep it grey. How many people do you know that actually look at the ceilings?
I try to forge on other Maps, the Scenery and the Map canvasses themselves are really refreshing after some greyworld.
100 different textures would represent poor aesthetic design every bit as much as the sea of grey. It's about knowing how to balance and blend textures to make an image that is both pleasing to the eye, as well as easy to understand. Using the terrain also helps break up and separate different areas of the map visually. I studied photo theory quite a bit in high school, and thus try to apply what I learned to my creations as much as possible. To answer the OP: The role aesthetics play in forge is the same in any Bungie or -insert game developer here- map. They exist to both orient, and aid in navigation. There are plenty of forgers out there who say things like "oh, forge is too limited to make a map that balances gameplay and aesthetics." But what they fail to realize that aesthetics are a component of gameplay, and the two go hand in hand. I believe that when people take that stance, what they are really saying is "it would be extremely difficult to do this, so i'll make excuses as to why I won't try" That said, there are plenty of forgers out there who do strive to push past what many perceive to be "limits." I would point to Eightballs Mirage, Shoe's Barky, or Ducks "S" to prove that point. The only limit is your imaginations people. And an understanding how the mind interprets visual media doesn't hurt either.
I personally LOVE aesthetics, it's what gives the map character, something to remember it by, something to 'call out' when playing on it, something that will stick in the players heads forever.
This. The fact that one can make so many different pieces that don't look like they fit together actually in the same visual space is called noise, it is distracting, and it is bad for any map. GodlyPerfection has some lessons on these points of cohesion and immersion that discuss this very point. But this is orthogonal to the issue of all gray. You can have pieces that are all gray and still be noisy. To add color, use the grass as your floor, the sky as your ceiling, and the cliff walls as your main wall to orientate players and add earth tone browns to your map. In other words, get rid of your coli walls as floors, get rid of your ceilings, and include the natural walls as your own for both color and orientation. The more I look at the maps that Bungie created and the original video that they made advertising forge before Reach came out, the more I am convinced they never intended for us to cram so many blocks into high density collections. A few here, a few there, and that should do it.
yeah, but if you use the entire budget your map is going to lag like crazy. Technology will always be a step behind you're imagination. But that's why it's important to focus on making the best use of what you have, rather than complaining that it's not good enough. IMO
Not always so. If you break up LoS adequately, segregate sections of the map, and make smart decisions on pieces, you can use a considerably amount of budget and still avoid frame rate. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Completely agree. Working with grass flooring can be difficult though... The gulch is the only large area, but the rolling hills make it sometimes impossible to use (depending on the map design) and the quarry is terribly small.
You know what I meant. When you hit a wall, it's up to you to find creative solutions around it. Forgers like finding excuses as to why they can't find a way over. One of many is your budget, or the more frequent "pieces are too grey" argument. That's like saying you're novel sucks because words are just too limited. If you think about the gulch in sections, it's much easier to work with. A lot of maps try to make full use of it, but the area is just too large IMO also, I think building your map INTO the terrain, rather than AROUND it, makes it much less difficult. All those hills make for great LOS blockers, and natural high ground areas.
True, but building into terrain you are handicapping your creative license as you now have a considerable part of your map's structure dictated to you. I prefer building around and keeping as true to my sketches as possible than to be forced to design something different so as to work with a force that is out of my control. However, sometimes I will design something to intentionally utilize natural geo such as the gulch's rolling hills. Unfortunately, these designs never go to far for me... Just too much out of my control.
The flat section of the gulch where blue base sits on Hemorrhage is my grass section of choice. There's near-perfect lightmapping, perfectly flat grass for a good amount of space, and good orientation scenery around you (two cliffs, the ocean, and the rest of the gulch. 90% of the time, I build there, on the sandbar closer to the cave, or above Forge World. Like people have been saying, use natural geometry, whether that be grass, water, or cliffs/rocks. It really helps to break up the grey. If you're forging in the air, try to use rocks as parts of your walls or flooring. They also help to break up the grey. Also, don't treat glass like the plague. The blue that it provides is also helpful for breaking up the grey. I've recently grown a liking for Block 2x2, Flats. If you can use them right, their glass looks nice, and they have a nice border of color as well. Never use coliseum walls as flooring unless it's a small section. A large expanse of flat greyness is not only bad-looking, but it's usually not to good for gameplay either. Do consider that a forge mostly 1v1 maps, but these concepts still apply to all sizes of maps.
I used to be very methodical about how I forged. I would make sketches, plan out flow ect ect. But, when I decided to create a terrain map, I realized that taking a "just wing it" approach was better suited for the job. Yeah, sometimes you have to make changes to accommodate hills or whatever. But learning how to use these to better the map is what makes it just as creative as forging anywhere else, if not more so. It can get tough at times, though. Just gotta go into it realizing that your map is going to be asymmetric, and finding ways to take advantage of that will eat up a lot of your time.
When I made these maps i was forging the way i wrote about in my first reply. Take no more than four objects and make the core of your map out of them. The blander they are the better they contrast each other. After this you can inject a bit of colour here and there to boost the overall look of the map. Made almost entirely out of Window cols, Brace Large, and Banks. Made almost entirely out of Platform XXLs, Banks, Window Cols and Block tall, thin I think the more bland and simple the better. After a bit of colour, like a tree or coloured block are added the bland and the bright compliment each other perfectly.
@Paranoia- Yes, if you are going to have grays, best to make contrasting grays with dramatic affect and with very little pattern to conflict with each other. Your's is an excellent example of using three shades of gray and gentle patterns.
Strange, I almost never have an issue on my maps with lag; nor have I ever received or heard of a complaint concerning that on them. This is notable since the vast majority of the time my maps are riding the budget maximum, but I have a guess as to why this occurs -- too much happening at once onscreen. Ergo, the solution is to not have too much structure visible from any playable location on the map; this could be part of the reason why windows are nasty for lag, you're both allowing more of the structure to be seen and adding extra detail (the varied & patterned transparency of the window itself). However, this isn't possible with maps where you want the majority or whole of the map visible. High object density, which is required for high level of detail many asthetically-oriented maps, can also induce lag; it's also taxing on the budget, using more stuff in a smaller area. There's also potentially a clutter problem, if it's done poorly. The solution I prefer is to use thematic asthetics (if that makes any sense), rather than a high level of detail work; make use of the overall layout and design of the map, have everything look good from the distance rather than up close. The larger super-structure of the map can tell the over-arcing story of the map quite well by showing you what the whole point of it is rather easily. To demonstrate, I have some images from a couple examples of my maps where I tried to use that principle. Sanctum of the Fallen is a floating structure, so it was built entirely out of forge pieces; several of the pieces had the default colours changed and the map does have a nice view of Forge World, partially avoiding that everything from looking grey. The purpose of the map is for it to be something of a temple; so I made a hall with a very high ceiling (and stuff hanging from the top) inside the structure and gave the "entrance" a look of grandeur. Spoiler This is the "entrance", viewed from the top level on one side of the map. The map certainly looks large from this angle, but you're actually seeing less than a quarter of its entirety. I've never encountered any lag from this angle. And this is a profile shot of the whole map, well outside the safe-zone to contain the players on it. This screenshot was taken while the game was lagging somewhat, but the angle required for this is not possible to obtain during normal play. Bay of Thunder is still undergoing testing, but there are a few large-scale asthetics present on the map; the giant cannon atop the mountain is purely asthetic (beyond the line of fire being a soft-kill zone), and it gives the map a sense of purpose. What might go unnoticed is that the all the "pipes" (made from large walkway covers) which go from the mountain towards the waterfront, providing that cannon with the cooling (or power) it needs to operate; these act of traverable structure, cover, and asthetics all at once. The base behind and the outpost in front of this weapon are to house the personnel & equipment for it, with the rear of the base in particular having some large barriers (energy shield grids and a "razor wall") to cut-off ground based assaults from reaching the main facility. The game-type is invasion, so you can probably guess what the objectives are just from this paragraph and the general look of the map. Speaking of which, most of the objectives have some additional detail work to show that that are important and have meaning; you're not just capturing a spot because it's a good location to fight, but because there's something there. Spoiler The best shot of the cannon I have so far, if from an earlier build of the map. An overview of the semi-current version of the map, with the cannon still being the most distinguishable part of it. It can be seen from anywhere on the map, and just about everything is built around or for it. But yes, asthetics don't necessarily have to be detail work; overall asthetics and theme can be play just as large a role. It's all there to give you map a sense of purpose, rather than it to come off as some random building or battlefield. Great gameplay is always good to have, but asthetics are what makes it memorable; I would say it's best to always try to have both on any map.