I completely understand his design philosophy on this one, and the only reason I even care to post in this thread is because I DO enjoy certain aspects of this map. But all I see are ways to take the design further. Also, I played quake quite a bit back in the day. But numerous advances have been made in game and level design since those days. IMO turning your back on those innovations is just silly. It's like saying you'd rather eat steak without A1 because it's how the cave men did it. Just makes no sense.
This made my night. But seriously, those innovations came after years of trial and error. Games like quake sank into obscutity, only to be remembered by a select for for a reason. They were simply stampeded by games like Halo that were designed to ease players into the swing of things. Is that "casualizing?" by definition, maybe. But why is that such a bad thing? I think that a lot of people WANT to believe that it is bad. And nobody has ever really come up with a withstand-able reason why. I would like to point out that it's not "nooby" to make a map comprehensible. Just like it's not nooby to want something to spice up the flavor of your steak. Most MLG maps are complex, yes, but nothing that exists on these does so without a very distinct purpose. When I look at all those orange lines on Acra, I feel they are more a testament of Hutlers artistic talent, rather than good design instincts.
You're a culinary noob. MLG maps actually tend to be more simple minded. Pros don't like learning maps. Its sad. Give 'em Pit and Midship and they're happy.
It's more like people stopped making sauce for their steaks and subbed the boiled, fresh potatoes with microwle fries because they find it easier to cook and easier to learn to do and thereby more enjoyable to eat, and suggesting that food is better should almost be punishable and criminal. The food is less sophistikated and tastes boring. Saying simplified layouts and game mechanics is a step forward is a bloody joke. It lowers the skillgap and cieling and makes gameplay static, redundant and boring. It's likeu saying your half a quid noodles is actually better food than something served at a good restuarant. And that it,s a step forward. People didn't use to make half a quid noodles for lunch and supper, they used to have steak wirh sauce and fresh potatoes instead, but they stopped bacause they are stupid, shiftless, apathetical losers. I still eat and cook good food, and I still prefer Unreal tournament over Halo bacause it is still the nicer alternative if you just bother trying a little bit.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one for now, Hutler. This debate has certainly given me plenty to think about in regards to how one designs asymmetrical maps. But this isn't going anywhere, so i'm going to removed myself from this conversation.
I don't mean to spark up the argument again, but I just want to say that complex maps like these are very enjoyable for FFA games. It is every bit harder to make orientation easier because complex designs require great object use, which Hulter has done on this map. Designs like these are nothing less than a breath of fresh air. Orientation can be easier when spawn points are well-placed to where they are facing an obvious direction and providing a large field of vision. And yeah, every layout can be learned.
Clean forging from the Hultsmister, and slick design from Nexn. Probably one of my favourite Reach maps. I hope to get a 2v2 on this soon.