INVASION: Island Complex

Cool, first to comment on this amazing map, what a pleasant surprise.
Ever since I saw the first sneak peeks of this map in your very first tutorial on THFE I had been waiting for this map to be officially publiced. Now it's finally there I can't wait to give it a try myself and see how it plays. I doubt if it can beat the hyper balanced gameplay on Bunker Complex since that map was just beyond words, it was just unbelieveably balanced, but the aesthetics alone can already make me say that this is in my top 5 of best invasion maps ever. (That doesn't say that much though, I'm quite a rookie when it comes to invasion lol).
I really like the idea of the separate fire team spawns too, I haven't really see anyone use them in such a well thought way before. The mix of both vehicular combat and soldiers on foot will also guarantee hours of fun playing on this map.

Keep up the great work, I'm already looking forward to viewing your newest map in the knowledge that it will be awesome as usual. The tutorials help a lot as well, normally I don't literally use them - if only because of the fact that I mostly forge minigames - but I can get some inspiration of it.


One more thing: You should definitely make an invasion map together with iflod101 sometime. I'd almost pay off just to play for once on a possible map like that.
(I might be exaggerating just a little but still )

 

OMFG ABOUT TIME YOU POSTED THIS!!!!!!! (/caps)

I think I only got one game on this map, and I didn't really feel for it too much, probably because it was still in testing. But really, amazing job Oakley! Instant DL and Nom

 

Wow, Oakley! This is a really incredible map. The aesthetics are wonderful, the movement of gameplay is phenomenal, and you've really inspired me to make great invasion maps. I loved to see your informational videos on the construction and detail that goes into your maps, and they're really quite well done. I recommend this to absolutely anyone and everyone!

 

This reminds me a bit too much of Sigma Array by my name is BYF. The whole island setting, the radar dishes and turrets, and the long bridges.

 

When you next are getting a game together on this please take the time to check if I am online, as I absolutely need to play this for myself. Your design looks incredibly solid, miles above Bunker Complex. I trust Able's advice for invasion as well as HaloWheelmen, so I expect this will be very good.

Have to keep an eye on the competition.

 

I play tested this map a little while ago with 7 other freinds and we loved it the map itself is asthetically awsome the gameplay is smooth it isn't certain that the elites will sucseed same with the humans the map is great fun and great for those that use advanced stratigies 11/10 (intended)

 

I'm surprised you kept the side spawn area in the first phase. That always made the first phase weird because the defenders had to defend the objective from two opposite directions and that squad was not only separated from their teammates but could not attack the objective on the far side. In all the games I played on this I don't think anyone ever captured objective A and objective B was generally engulfed in a continuous explosion for the duration of phase 1. Phases 2 and 3 played quite well except for the object flashing in some places which I hope you've fixed.

 

Shoe and I looked around on here yesterday. The map certainly is an improvement from Bunker Complex, which was utterly awful. Of course it still appears that gameplay took a backseat to aesthetics again, with all the money wasted on the submarine and aircraft carrier. The map still manages to look rather generic, but the theme was still well executed. You have done a good job of utilizing the island's terrain, and you have some interesting paths to attack objectives from and take the core through. Overall, this looks to be a decent invasion map, but not a great one.

 

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I've played this so many times and in no way do the aesthetics impede gameplay. The attention to detail also keeps it from becoming generic. So I have to ask, what makes this map generic? I've yet to see any map similar to it.

Yes, Bunker Complex had a linear style to it but it was not "utterly awful". I've played on terrible maps and that was not one of them.

Oakley and The Halo Forge Epidemic continue to bring the community great maps. And I emphasize great.

 

This map feels very much like your standard island invasion map. Sure, the terrain is utilized a bit better than most of the other island invasion maps, but as far as the look of the map, it does not stand out. The submarine, aircraft carrier, bunkers, and anti-air guns all look decent, but also feel very generic to me. Hushed Apprentice actually transforms the island; instead of feeling like you're in a military base on Forge World's island, you feel like you're on the Silent Cartographer island from Halo CE. Bunker complex was not only hopelessly linear, but it had numerous design flaws. The fact that all players still in the phase 1 area were instantly killed as soon as phase 2 started is unacceptable and incredibly stupid. There is a general lack of good paths to attack from in that map, and it plays very poorly. I began to get this opinion after inspecting Bunker Complex in forge, and the opinion was solidified when I actually played the map. Almost everyone in the game I played agreed with me as well. Yes, Bunker Complex is terrible. Luckily, this map does not appear to be. I look forward to actually getting some games on here, so I can get a better idea of how it plays.

 

Yup that's quite right they are similar. I was highly inspired by Oakley's designs. However Sigma Array has significant flaws in some of its phases which i've now tweaked and fixed. I will say this though with regards to Island complex. I've seen this map in production since the start. It has got better and better and i genuinely can't express how happy i am to see that it's been a success.

Anyway With regards to the map one thing that i love particularly is the large airspace above the map. Whilst testing this at one point with Oakley and a couple of others i happened to be in a banshee. All i can say is WOW. the fly zone is huge and its great for air based combat.

Anyway a great job as always Oakley. Be proud of this.

 

I guess this is more of a subject viewpoint but I'm going have to disagree with you. The aesthetics alone make this map standout. They're nice on the eye yet every piece serves a purpose.

For example, the pipes in phase one fit the theme, look organic to the map but more importantly cut off LOS in order for the attackers to breach the area without getting easily picked off.

If you're saying the idea of a military type base is generic, then welcome to forge hub. Similar to how there are only 38 plots for stories, there are only four broad themes for forging: Civilian, Military, Covenant or Forerunner.

My feeling is totally opposite of yours. The way Oakley uses the submarine, aircraft carrier, bunkers, and anti-air guns are integral to gameplay and seemingly expand the map. It's called implied design.

While Hushed Apprentice is a great map, in no way does it transport me out of forge world. That's just a problem most outdoor maps suffer from because you're using the same skybox. To me, it seems like another Paradiso.

In fact, I would say it is Oakley who transforms the map to fit his own theme. When playing, it feels like a military compound.

This will be the last time I talk about Bunker Complex, since we're supposed to be talking about Island Complex. In theory and aesthetically, Bunker Complex seemed pretty innovative. However, there were a few flaws.

I don't recall ever being instantly killed in Phase 1. Perhaps, you played an earlier version.

I was under the impression that you had already played it. If I were you, I'd save on judgment until you got a few games in.

Also, the fact that you're comparing this to Hushed Apprentice is pretty unfair if you haven't played on it.

 

Well, glad to see it's finnally finished! heres my review after a few play throughs:

This map has some great asthetics. I see these asthetics on alot of good maps, but never all in the same map so effectively. I am talking about the AA gunz, the satelite dishes, and the bunkers. I also like the original design for the carrier and submarine and I must admit I have used the carrier design in one of my maps.

I strongly disagree with anyone that says asthetics should take a backseat to gameplay. They must be in (or close to) equal proportion. You could have a map that plays beatifully made of pure 2x2 blocks. But no-one will like it simply because it is boring. the reason bungie gave us this forge was so that we wouldent be bored with the standard maps. Asthetics are what make a map, and this map is very well made in that sense.

HOWEVER, aside from asthetics that make this map stand out, the gameplay is very generic. Nothing special to say about the gameplay. It is not bad, but not excedingly good either. I have already managed 4 games on it and it played, well, decently. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with it, I just don't have the taste for it simply. I would still recomend this map to people, even though I got bored real fast.

Also I have one major issue. The elite vehicle bay. Unless you ran out of peices, you NEED to make it look better. A colluseum wall box is beneath you, Oakley. Do SOMETHING else, ANYTHING else, just not a wall box, for god's sake. I was playing through as the elite, enjoying the views, when I died and saw the vehicle bay. For a second I though i was in a squeeker map! You can do better than that!

Overall, a well-forged map, 7.5/10. Keep it up!

PS. Come on psycho, Bunker Complex is a fine map! I never got bored of it, but you are right- the killing off of the first phase is bad. PLEASE fix it.

 

Ah, I remember playing this. It was a well-forged map, the style of forging itself was very clean and neat.

Gameplay itself is very fun, however I recall becoming bored during the second phase when Elites started camping the right objective and some hijacked-human vehicles held the other, to the point where I found myself wandering trying to break the map until time elapsed. However, beyond that all my experience on this map has been great. Nice work.

 

The pipes in phase 1 are absolutely important for LOS, it's things like the AA guns that serve no purpose in gameplay. Even the sub and carrier serve gameplay purposes, there are just cheaper, better alternatives. They all look pretty cool, but do little else. Many pieces serve a purpose, and many do not.

Thanks for welcoming to a site that I know my way around better than you. Unfortunately, the sentence which that is a response to is even less ignorant than the paragraph following it. There are as many themes for forging as an imagination allows. That is the kind of limited thinking that causes so many maps to be so generic.

Of course if you like this better than Hushed, that is a perfectly valid opinion. The sub and carrier are not in any way integral to gameplay though.

Bunker Complex was a good example of a decent idea that is poorly executed. The version i played was the latest version from about 3 months ago, still long after the map was released. Even if the issue's been fixed, the fact that something that bad was there in the first place is bad.

I have not played Hushed. Over the last year I have spent lots of time analyzing maps as part of the Testers' Guild. I spend time (an hour in this case) analyzing a map in forge and then I play it. My assumptions about gameplay are correct very much of the time, and you don't need to actually play a map to fully understand the aesthetics. By looking at how a map is built, a lot of information about gameplay becomes apparent to the practiced eye. Still, I mainly kept my criticisms about this map related to aesthetics anyway.

Your arguments have been somewhat valid and mostly well presented, although they have been interspersed with a few ignorant comments. Liking or disliking a map is completely opinion-based, however there are facts involved as well. When I say I dislike Bunker Complex, I am in no way trying to insult Oakley or be argumentative. i am simplay stating facts about why the map plays poorly. thank you for sharing your opinions on Island Complex though, I look forward to reinforcing my own upon playing the map.

I know how complicated invasion is to newcomers. Not designing fireteams, for instance, is something I also did with the first version of Cargo Port when i was learning invasion as well.

The beachfront looked quite good from a gameplay perspective. The bunkers mostly did as well. The core route you mentioned is something that caught my eye as well. The only problem I saw was that it required you to take the core right under the enemies' spawns. Still, the way the tunnel was worked into the map is something which I really liked. Aesthetically, nothing really looks like something I couldn't find in another map, and that is what made it feel generic to me. Still, gameplay looks good, despite what looks to be inefficient budget management. Again, I look forward to playing the map so I can fully flesh out my opinion. Thank you for not taking anything I said the wrong way, but rather as constructive criticism as it was intended.

 

I haven't gotten a game yet, but I have some initial impressions from the fly through's I have done.

On gameplay, I think you did a great job with your paths and lines of sight overall. Phase 2 where you can drop down the rock or shoot from the top is a good throwback to Breakpoint P1, though the walk after that seemed a little longer. The pipes were good, simple los blockers and your rocks looked well placed for dodging in and out of on offense.

I do wish you had decided to make this a 2 area map though. Phase 3 feels like it had some left out because of budget issues and I hate it that your phase 1 structures get left in the dust, something not great to do budget wise. Also, the P2 Alpha (left) territory is against two walls in a corner facing defense spawns, making grenade spam seem possible. Like I said, I haven't played, but this seems like it could be an issue. Maybe in the middle of the room?

Aesthetically, you made good looking structures (especially in P1) but the sub and ship feel like they are bringing your resources from the map itself to somewhere outside it. When I see them I think, "Okay, that's cool, but this beach in front of them seems a little empty." I think you could have done something overall with the map instead of putting two big eye catchers. It just feels like the easy way out: plausible, but not the best it could be. Once again, you ignore your cool P1 aesthetics in the end as well.

It's really weird when all the rocks just disappear after phase 1. I know it is for framerate, but you launch any players in the rocks still out in the open, as well as back to reality. You can't change this now, but it's another reason to stick with the expansive invasion style rather than the progressive.

Finally, there are two paths I am dubious about. The wraith can go around the beach, but it is a long, boring, and possibly dangerous route. While on route, you have no way to fight off the falcon, which could easily float up high and take you down. You also said the core could be taken up to the island tunnel then go through? If this actually happens okay, but if you just think it will take that out. Most people wont go that way because it initially goes away from both offense spawns and the capture point, and stays far from both for awhile. You trade off both things you want to take the core to for safety that is very short after a long area of danger.

Overall, I like this and I want to play several games on it, but I also think it could have been better. In the future I would definitely say go for a 2 area design without forgetting P3 area. You could even change it by mixing you current P1 and 2 designs in the P2 area then updating P3, but that would be a different map in the end. You have done one thing good in that I can't wait to play even knowing its faults!

On Bunker Complex, I know how you feel. It went kind of the way First Tracks did- good but actually very casual. As long as we all improve there is no shame in that, and you have certainly improved, though with room to gain more.