So I just had an idea for the multiplayer in Halo 4. 343i could take some of the best made maps from Reach or CE forge, then make them look like what the creator envisioned them as, like using a different palette than Forge World grey. That way, the best maps from forge would get the recognition they deserve, as well as a way to fix any problems encountered.
Good idea in theory. In practice, we'll probably end up with a gorgeous rendering of a boring map like Think Twice. As the Bungie forge contest proved, it's really hard for them to sift through all the chaff to really find the best wheat. The stuff from the forge community that ended up in the playlists - 90% of it I'd be happy to never play again.
Or, you know, we let the people who get paid to design map, you know, design the maps. Oh wait, Uncaged.
I'm always a little put off by the attitude that Bungie (or at least the facet that we see, i.e. forge map selection) take towards forge maps. I mean, The Cage and Pinnacle were seen as fit for putting out as on-disk forge variants. True, The Cage would be better if it weren't for Jetpack starts, but there are still fundamental flaws with it as a design and its implementation. The back edge (between tower and sniper) is too much of a combat focus and an open LoS. I'd guess they attempted to downplay the dominance of Sniper spawn by allowing spawns at tower even when someone is anywhere along the back edge, or perhaps they just thought that was a good idea even aside from that, but either way it just leaves ridiculous spawns in clear LoS. I get spawns at bottom tower when there's someone at top tower quite regularly. I get spawned behind when I'm standing at Sniper spawn even more regularly. As for Pinnacle, well its outright removal speaks for itself. Idk, for a company who produce some serious quality maps (even if Reach is down on previous standards, there are still some great examples here), it's way too easy to see a distinct difference between the attitude towards forge maps and fully fledged maps. This idea would be fantastic if implemented (aside from the obvious issues with NO choice being exempt from criticism), but I fear this attitude would hinder it pretty heavily.
Agreed, Pegasi. It's almost like they have a crack team of map designers who know the principles of their work inside and out... but they gave the forged map variants on the disc, and approval of the community map selections, to an unpaid intern who doesn't like first person shooters. Some of those maps are downright hideous. I've gotten used to The Cage (well, Uncaged), but Pinnacle speaks for itself, Asylum turns a great map into a merely good one, and it physically pains me that I've ever had to play the likes of Mt. Lam Lam, Renegade (a well-forged bad idea), and Enclosed. Some of the better community maps in the playlists are the ones that are merely uninteresting rather than outright bad.
I think bungie's maps are all like the forge ones but with all the bumps and stuff smoothed over so it looks nice. In fact many of the problems with their forge variants are in the real maps too although less common since they obviously put more time into those maps. If the people who make excellent forge variants were given the chance to build real maps the quality would be astounding. As for the idea of the thread, there's no way it would work seeing as bungie hasn't made the best choices of matchmaking maps to say the least and I doubt 343 will either.
I will give Bungie and Reach this: Reflection was a damn good map. They knew what they were doing in Halo 2, and the whole trilogy for that matter, and they didn't screw Ivory Tower with a crappy remake. I want 343i to do that. Remake the maps EXACTLY as the forgers made them, but remake them as defaults that can have the theme that was intended. Like, if you made an awesome map that was a UNSC factory, it wouldn't really be all grey, but you don't have a choice in Reach. Remake them with the intended view.
You can wish as much as you want... I hoped for this idea before we got Reach... I was hoping that my maps wouldn't be hindered by things like dull scenery, framerate issues, object counters... If I had an unlimited budget and array of tools, I'd spend literally years perfecting a map over and over from the finest details of how light reflects through the glass, to the perfect height of tactical jumps throughout. Nearly every one of my maps have only ever come to about 20% of what I originally envisioned them being and it makes me depressed that even with you guys wishing this would happen... it won't, and even if it did (in the slightest chance ever), we won't be the ones selected by 343i. It'll be that guy who has like four maps in matchmaking, with each of them being as painstakingly awful as the last. Forgive my pessimistic attitude... but I'm tired and pissed off... and I haven't enjoyed forging anything in the last 5 month or so and the biggest reason why is above...
All of your Invasion maps had terrible spawns and very poor overall gameplay. If I were in 343 Industries, I wouldn't want you having any involvement in the map design process. Plus, it hasn't been confirmed that Halo 4 will even have Invasion, so I wouldn't get your hopes up. Invasion hasn't received a single map thus far that wasn't loaded with problems. It may be a better idea to simply leave Invasion out of Halo 4. It was a bad idea that promoted imbalanced games and it really brought out the worst in Reach. If you want to go kill some Elites as a Spartan, go play the Campaign. Or Firefight, if Halo 4 has that. I agree with this idea. There are many forge maps that deserve remakes created by 343. Complex by Salot, The Hive and Cladite by a Polish Korean, Solace by Seven oh Three, and Haze by Unoverrated are just a few maps I could see being remade into true maps. That's assuming that 343 cares about gameplay, of course. That's true. Reach was only so bad because we had such high expectations for it. Few games ever live up to their predecessors, as was the case with Reach. Realistically, I don't ever see this happening, but if there is a slight chance that it does, 343 would be doing this with MLG, not the guy who has 4 broken maps in matchmaking. Since they are working closely with MLG and seem to realize how stupid Bungie was with deciding which maps go into matchmaking, I don't think they'll make the mistake to choose forgers focused only on aesthetics like A 3 Legged Goat and other similar people. And of course you won't be selected if you're just going to dream about it on ForgeHub instead of contacting them yourself. Nothing will happen if no one tries. 343 would be stupid not to use this idea. It would save time for them to have to conceptualize their own maps and allow them to focus more on other things, like weapon mechanics. Even though I've said a million times that this probably won't happen, I do support this idea.
I never thought of it that way. Then again, 343i has an assload of work to do to make Halo 4 meet the bar Bungie set with Reach. They had help with CEA, and they had a clear cut goal, but they have to make Halo 4 from scratch. At least if we have the multiplayer maps already made, it's a lot easier.
Personally, I am not a fan of when maps are released that are easily forgable for the most part. I didn't like the idea of a Hang Em High remake because High Noon in the older classic playlist was already an almost exact remake. Sure it is nicer to have a less stale, grey Hang Em High with a tiny bit of a smoother corner in a few places, but I would rather see maps being made like Valhalla, Relic, Waterworks, Avalanche, Zanzibar, High Ground, etc... aka things that utilize switches, moving map pieces, or environments that no budget or block can create.
343 should be taking notes on all this... sounds like we lack the tools to make our maps like theirs. Give us the moving doors, breakable windows, switches, moving platforms, or whatever. I'm not satisfied with forge mode, no matter how spectacular they make it sound. There's too many limitations. I'd personally buy a separate disk that included their building software.
^ I definitely would buy it. On the other hand I would like to see them cut off part of the Halo CE campaign and use them as a multiplayer map. There are some good locations that would be perfect for multiplayer. Halo: CEA - Campaign Gameplay - (Part 15: Flying Death) - YouTube at the beginning until about 1:30 would make a cool symmetrical 2v2.
True point 4shot, but then again... why would they want us to build the maps for them? Sure it would be an ultimate prize to have the bragging rights that your map went into a game IF it was universally accepted as a decent map (like pit, construct etc..) but then again... why would 343i want a random guy to just show up and steal a part of the glory in the game. Sure it might be free labour, but it could just be a double edged sword and cause a lot of grief for 343i's map makers. I think that's mainly why we get the limitations we have, because we shouldn't be allowed to exceed the map creation. Oh, and theres that fact none of us know how to build maps from code.........
Ouch... all of them? I have only ever released one which was awesome, a second which did fail and a third at the moment that already is good and its still in alpha. Btw i personally love invasion. Anyway, like stevo said. The whole idea probably highly unlikely. However theres no doubt that 343 will hopefully upgrade forge allowing at least a little bit more flexibility in what we can make.
Read this thread about forge suggestions. http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-...00-ultimate-forge-object-wishlist-thread.html