If you say so, it must be true. unfortunately for you, i could care less what you think. i do not wish to continue trollosophizing with you any longer. you can take your Philosofapping ass out of my thread and crawl back under your troll bridge now.
Arrange objects in such a manner that they create an bowed walkway. /done. Also, you're the one trolling. You're the one coming with personal attacks and insults. "the fact that was lost on you says more about you than me." " you can take your Philosofapping ass out of my thread and crawl back under your troll bridge now. " On topic: It lacks layout wise. It is a big open atrium with four long, narrow hallways. Spawn trapping is easy and it's really easy to predict. The layout is at about the same level as most warmup maps. It is completely linear, gameplay wise. Make it more complex, more open and less segregated. There is essentially no cover appart from the hallways. I also think it is sloppy, and the simple arrangement of objects to create the shapes and images you have isn't even that original. Anyone can do it, and many have done similar stuff before. I would suggest the thread is moved to the aesthetic section, as the OP has much larger emphasis on the aesthetics than anything else, like map flow and gameplay.
yes, i believe you told me the map was "simple" about 30 times yesterday while you were walking it. no need to come here and repeat yourself. your also highly arrogant even though your forging skills are mediocre at best. at least i sat there and listened to what you were saying (even though you were being an asshole about it). you refused to even hear any feedback me or seven oh three had on your map, which was less then impressive by the way.
I did indeed say it was too simple, had bad spawns, was unbalanced and that it had bad connections. There's nothing else to say. As you haven't even tried to make a good layout, it's impossible to give any more specific feedback. I did tell you what you should do to make something real out of the concept. That's all the feedback I can give you. You have to change the majority of the map to make it good. But hey, it's alright. you can't always be good at something you just started with. Don't take it so personal. You have to learn before you can know something. And how the bloody hell was I being an asshole? I gave you honest and constructive feedback. Would I not have wanted to be nice, I would have simply quit the game after telling you it was simply bad and stupid. I didn't tell you I thought it was terrible. You should be thankful I bothered at all. There's a lot of more intelligent map design by better designers I could have been spending my time with. I never mentioned anything concerning it's quality. I neither said it was bad nor that it was good, because I didn't want to be mean and I didn't want to be lying. I told you about specifics, that the hallways were sketchy, that the entire layout was too simple et.c. That's being sympathetic, you ungrateful nit wit. Also, you're really the wrong guy to be undermining people. Drop your balls and grow up.
your opinion is completely irrelevant to me. thanks for bumping my map though, that was nice of you. and no, you didn't say any of that. you literally kept repeating " it's too simple." your also the only one that has ever said anything about the layout being bad. in fact everyone who commented on it has said the opposite. and judging by the way your map was laid out, it's apparent to me that you're just a **** with an over inflated ego that has no idea what they are talking about. but, i'm sure you have people lining up for your ever so insightful feedback. and i didn't invite you into my map, or ask for your help. i asked seven for feedback because he's a friend of mine and i respect his opinion. you kind of just showed up and started acting like your some kind of master map designer, which clearly you are not.
fix'd. And yeah, then you weren't listening. I did say all the other stuff too, but "simple" is really the main attribute of the map, so why would you be surprised. And please, tell me how the map you were on was flawed. What were the problems? What makes you think it's bad? And please tell me this too! where are people going to spawn safely when one team is controlling top mid and have the GL? Either, right in front of them, or in the hallways where you have two movement options, to either go out one way, or to go out the other way. There are no other options. You'd be trapped in them. A grenade is impossible to evade because it's too narrow, and you have no other movement options. You'd get raped for the rest of the game. Do you honestly think that's a good thing?
The map should not support 2v2, its too small, too simple, and like hulter said its too easy for one team to gain good position and continually ass rape the other team off spawn. First, its a small map, which is fine considering that you only had access to 100 natural, so im sure that's the largest pieces will allow. Second, the layout lacks depth. There are no key LoS, thus gameplay becomes quite bland after only a few kills. Third, the weapons are somewhat iffy for a map this size with small LoS. If you expand the map just a little, you will find that spawning issues become less prevalent, as well as 2v2 being a much more enjoyable experience. Good luck on v3!
I played this map in a 2v2 and it was fine. Very rarely did i ever catch someone spawning. I think it is a bit small for 2v2 but it does work. Good map.
Not replying to a post with valid complaints and points is childish. But whatever. And yeah, he said he wasn't going to because "there is no point in it". My post was probably so stupid it didn't even deserve a reply, wasn't it? Nit wit. However Just look at that picture. The guy in the tunnel has 2 options, 2 ways to go, and both can easily be controlled from the same spot. He is trapped off spawn. That is bad and unfair. The same concept applies to all the four hallways. The spawns right in the open are even worse Your map is easily breakable if you just try. It's unbalanced, and you not listening to me is B/S and just bloody childish. Stop being so defensive and try to improve your map instead. And I don't care how many BKs that like your map you can find. There are still huge logically motivated flaws that should be dealt with. Oh yeah, and as I told you as well, the hallways are really easily nadeable. I got like six spawn kills without even going into them, just by chucking nades and bouncing some off the wall with the GL. Fix it. Remove the hallways, move the one side to get away from that nat geo that appearantly forced you to build a long narrow hallway around it, try making it more complex and deep and change it so you can't see eighty percent of the map from the same spot. Like, this layout is like onslaught, except it doesn't have any bases or any side towers. It just has top mid. Imagine that that you removed everything on it, appart from top mid, and just put up some blocks double open (H3 foundry) to make some hallways on the ground. That's how simple and poor the layout currently is. That's what it would look like. Even simpler than onslaught. It does mostly look good aesthetically, appart from some awkward corners in the hallways and some really narrow clunky parts.
hulter, you have not actually played this map. and no, this does not count. Bungie.net : Reach : Game Details that is the only game i could find of you on illuminaded. all you did here was sign a guest in splitscreen and watch where they spawn so you can repeatedly kill them. your feedback is extremely biased and i will not listen to it. all the people who have actually played a real game on the map have said the exact opposite of what your saying. some of them know a whole lot more on this topic then you do. you can stop flaming my thread now.
It was a real game against my brother. He may not be particularly good, bit he can usually get a few kills, but he didn't even get a chance when I had gotten the first kill. It's because the spawns are horrible. @Xamples: yeah, I'm starting to realise that he's that kind of ignorant and arrogant guy that won't listen to feedback unless it just blindly says it's perfect. Oh yeah, and Zeeb, I already told you I don't care how many BKs that like it you can find. The christians were wrong about the world being flat, yet the intelligent people had figured it was round by using logic. I hope you get the metaphor. Yeah, you're the ignorant christians tying to hush the people saying the world is round.
Really cool map bro, I love the spiral column and where you picked to build the map is very interesting. This map is very original in its own way. I call this a complete Win.
i don't see how you can say i don't listen to feedback. i sent the unreleased version of this map to the testers guild. of course i want to make it better. so far i have 3 or 4 people complaining about the spawns and non of them have played a game on it. but, im getting feedback from people who have played games on the map saying the opposite. i carefully placed the spawns. i tryed to mimic spawning from popular bungie maps. yes there is a miniature spawn trap, it puts more emphasis on teamwork over individual skill. what is wrong with that? all the most popular maps have spawn traps built in by design. look at the pit, midship, countdown, sanctuary just to name a few. i dont see what the big deal is. if it turns out that you are right and the spawns are just horribly broken, then i will make one giant neutral respawn zone over the entire map for team slayer. the map is not as bad as you are trying so hard to make it sound. you have been unjustly critical of my map since the second you saw it and there is no reason for it. you've been trying to argue how broken my spawns are from the start and yet you have not actually tryed to play a 2v2 on it. i still am not convinced you have played the map at all. i really wish we could just agree to disagree.
It isn't a matter of spawn placement, it's a matter of movement options after spawning. Hulter took the time to illustrate that when a player spawn in that area, they only have two options, and those options both lead to the center making it incredibly easy to spawn trap people. No Bungie map is designed with spawn trapping in mind. Spawn trapping is a result of a flawed spawn system.
have you played this map xzamples? your not going to repeatedly spawn in one spot the entire game. there are other spawning options and movement options then what is apparent from that screenshot. if a team is caught in a spawn trap, its because they let the other team get map control. the better team wins. i am not against admitting when i am wrong or making changes to fix issues that come to light. but as it stands right now it's not as much of a problem as some of you are claiming. and if it turns out that it is, i'll make the changes that are required. is it? i think bungie knew exactly what they were doing. bungie has been making alot of maps with those same "flaws" for a longtime now. why would mlg adopt the maps i've mentioned as fair competitive maps if they have such flawed spawning systems. i'm sorry but i don't believe your statement is correct. i could be wrong though.
The better team does not win. The team who manages to kill the opposing team is rewarded with free kills due to the predictable spawning. Yes, the spawn system is flawed. You should never be seen during the spawning process. MLG adopts whatever maps they believe has the best layout for competitive gameplay. Spawning isn't something they control. Even if they can choose where the player spawns, they can't choose when a player spawns there.
fair enough, you've all made your point rather clear. i am trying my best to test the map and fix what i can. the new version has doorways near objective. and a stone spire to match blue. there really isn't much more i can do to add to it short of some cover. i dont want to add any more steel then i have already and im out of naturals. i'll try out a single neutral zone similar to how zealot is setup, and see how it plays out.
Like, the thing it really needs the most is some way of countering the power position. Other power positions. Right now it's all about controlling top mid, since it has the height advantage over the entire map, and also lets you keep people stuck down on the bottom level and in the dangerous hallways. Maps need to have different incentives to move to diferent places, different places with certain advantages over other areas, and other certain disadvantages to others. That's what makes fast paced maps flow well, but on this, it's really just all about pushing top mid. I know I haven't played it a lot, but I have a pretty strong theory for why I wouldn't enjoy it. It's all logical, see. Sometimes, you don't have to play things to know how they would play. Just hypothetically, if you would see a map that was completely open and flat and just had two pillars on the entire map for cover, you would know it would play bad without having to play it first. You can tell, since there is nothing to control, since you're going to spawn in each other's view every time etc. Generally, it's a good sign when people aren't criticising your map without having played it, because that means they can't see obvious flaws enough just by looking at it. This isn't quite there yet (IMO, I suppose). I would try making some kind of forgepieces/natural geometry hybrid theme, just like most other nat geo maps. I know it's not original, but there's not much else you can do to make maps that play well, in forge.
I agree with almost every single person in this thread. This map looks amazing, needs work, and has potential all at once. The visuals offer a completely different feeling of playing and it kind of reminds me of Unreal Tournament style maps(thats a good thing to me). Cant wait to get some tests going man. P.S.- Hulter and Zamples are actually trying to help, It took me a while to see that but they mean well.
Since I have not gotten a game on this map, I will not join this conversation that Hulter and Xzamplez are having with Zeeb. Seriously, this is ridiculous. I don't even know how this argument started, even though it was only feedback. Everyone is just acting as a child. Really, what is the big deal?