Its more all the little changes that deviate from the more "traditional Halo formulas" that I'm talking about. Slight changes like movement speed. Or big changes like adding AA's. There were a lot of changes that took Reach in a direction further from what most people expected. And you either loved it, hated it or were indifferent to it and just played it. And like Pegasi said, other fps games out now like CoD, are competing with Halo for numbers. But I also think other games are taking the younger generations because Halo doesn't appeal to them because you have to work for your kills vs CoD's easy kills. But we're loosing the older generations of people that loved the classic Halo's because of said changes. I wasn't saying that the game changed so drastically that it was unrecognizable comparatively, just that it changed enough to turn some people off. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for Forge, I would have stopped playing Reach a long time ago.
All of below is complete opinion. Don't taze me brah: I think that the rate of fire on the precision weapons needs to be slowed down a tiny bit. The TU mainly affected 3 guns: the DMR, NR, and Magnum. It took the three most reliable all-purpose weapons in the default Reach and made them even more deadly. I believe that 0% bloom is great and necessary; guns should shoot where you are aiming. However, bloom was a way to take these incredibly reliable guns and put them on crutches to at least give the other weapons in the sandbox SOME chance. So in short, it made the best even better which, inversely, made the worst even more useless. There needs to be a way to put these three precision weapons back in their place without sacrificing their accuracy: they can, and should, still be at the top of the starting weapon hierarchy, but they shouldn't be far beyond the top like they currently are. So how could this be done? Making the guns a bit slower. Not only would this make the rest of the Reach sandbox serve a bit more purpose, but precision vs precision weapon duels would take a bit more skill. At the moment, the magnum can get a kill in under a second. I recall the classic BR duels being as much about movement as it was about accuracy; strafing, jumping, ghandi-hopping, etc... were essential to winning battles. The current rate of fire keeps movement at a minimum because the magnum refuses to allow people to take a step or two to the side before killing them, let alone strafe. Longer kill times would allow duels to be more about outmaneuvering + retaining accuracy for longer periods of time. Note that a drastic delay would hinder this by making cover an easy thing to reach for: I'm not proposing an INCREDIBLY noticeable RoF change. I personally find it a bit ridiculous; my main reason for loving Halo over any other shooter was the health system and perfect kill-times. I personally didn't like the idea behind quick kill times in games like CoD because it seems like 1 strategic mistake made by a player and oops, they're dead: better luck next time. It was different in Halo, you can get shot first, react, be a quick thinker and can turn the tables on the opponent. With the current RoF on these precision weapons on TU Reach: you get shot, notice that you're getting shot, and you're already in the respawn screen.
Great point by Loscocco, changing the RoF, especially with the magnum, would make gameplay drastically more enjoyable.
I think the DMR and NR are fine, but the Magnum definitely needs a slower rate of fire or should be treated as a power weapon. (The second option is more feasible)
I think even the DMR and NR could do with a slight RoF nerf tbh. I basically agree with everything Los said.
I think the DMR is fine. Just Slow the Magnum way the eff down and the NR down a bit and make it semi-auto instead.
I think the if you lower the RoF of the DMR and NR I think you should also make them kill in fewer shots. That way, it feels less like spamming, but it keeps the same kill times which are fine.
That is the point though, The TU makes those 3 weapons Deadly and the rest of the weapons are stuck to a tiny niche or support/assist weapons. The default Reach all weapons are balanced, You can't take away bloom the thing that keeps precision weapons balanced then expect them to stay balanced. Slow the Rof then it will be balanced? You would have to have a lot of testing to know what a perfect Rof is(if there is one) because if it's to slow other weapons would dominate precision weapons(then it wouldn't be a utility weapon) and at long range everyone would escape without dieing, But if the Rof is to short the precision weapons will dominate most everything (excluding obvious examples of rockets/snipers long range,etc) and all the other weapons will be limited to a tiny niche of support weapons..........Oh wait...
Why do you consider it a mistake? If anything, it promotes movement. With DMR starts, people immediately try to control key sections of a map and hold it down. They already have a fairly lethal weapon and there really is no need to upgrade to find a better one. Very little of the map is used. With AR starts, there is more movement around the map as a whole. Players aren't solely focused on holding key sections of a map... but must leave to find power weapons as well. Action is spread out amongst the map instead of just in key areas. Of course, that all depends on how well made the map is... and whether weapons are placed properly to promote this.
Fixed. And I like AR/Pistol starts it's like starting with a kit AR for CQC and pistol for headshots/longer range and whatever weapon you pick up changes your kit to give you advantages and disadvantages depending on your weapon.
Go watch MLG. People walk around just as much with the DMR if not more. Also, more movement around the entire map isn't necessarily a good thing. Holding powerful positions is a big part of what Halo is. And the main problem with the AR (or any automatic weapon) is that the difference between a good and bad AR player is a lot less apparent than between a good and bad DMR player. The skill gap with the AR is minimal, mainly because it's really one dimensional. People hold the trigger and vaguely aim at the enemy and that's pretty much all what the AR is. When two people are in an AR firefight what happens? They hold the trigger down, run towards each other and do a beatdown. Often resulting in a simultaneous death. Also, people act as if nobody picks up other weapons when they have a DMR. This is simply not true. The Sniper, Needle Rifle, Sword, Shotgun, Concussion Rifle, Rockets, Grenade Launcher, Plasma Pistol, Focus Rifle, Spartan Laser and Plasma Launcher will still get picked up. When people start with an AR the only extra weapon they pick up is the DMR. Woopdeefuckingdoo. There will always be those fights for the power weapons be it AR or DMR starts. Again, watch some MLG matches and tell me what you see. Honestly, though, just give us DMR/AR start.
I've watched videos of a few MLG matches... and to be honest, it was exactly what I described. One team holding a position with DMRs, just strafing back and forth and not moving around the map. It could very well be just the videos I saw, but competitive playing never really interested me enough to sit and watch other people play. Also, my point wasn't that they didn't pick up other weapons... it's that it's not as much of a priority. When I start with an AR, the first thing I think of is... I need to find myself a better weapon. What I start with a DMR, I think... it's time to go hunting. I'm in no way saying, I'm right... and you're wrong. I'm just saying that my mindset is completely different with the two weapon starts.
No matter how you slice it, the mag is NOT a power weapon. From what I've played in the TU playlist I don't think it needs to be changed at all, even with zero bloom. plenty of times the dmr/needle rifle still wins out. And if we're trying to make a situation where everything is balanced.... thats impossible.
Controlling the power weapons is one of the biggest factors of winning an MLG match. Also, promoting movement by giving people a shitty weapon isn't the right way to go. And aside from movement the AR ruins so much that it's not worth it. [br][/br]Edited by merge: It's a close to med range power weapon for sure.
This is coming from a guy who really, really doesn't like playing AR starts: I think they should remain. I just think they shouldn't rule almost all of the game. Squad Slayer is pretty much the only way to play casual, standard size Halo (ie. not MLG, Arena - which is pretty much dead even when I want to play it - or BTB) and have a decent chance of DMR starts, but even then people who just want to play ARs on Countdown over and over and over (and it'd be Sword Base too if they hadn't removed that in Squad) still muscle in and act with the same sense of entitlement that is generally put upon those who prefer DMR starts. Honestly, I just wish there was one standard competitive, vanilla Reach playlist which had guaranteed DMR starts, then they could even bring a higher focus on AR starts in Squad. Something like Team Hardcore, a mix of Slayer and objective 4v4 games with guaranteed DMR starts, would make me sooooo happy. I run in to people all too often who say people who vote for DMRs in Squad are not only tryhards, but 'selfish.' Selfish? Really? People who prefer AR start gametypes have the key playlists at their beck and call, TS, Rumble Pit, Team Objective, hell even Doubles since they made it non-Arena. And people who prefer DMR starts just one one playlist on the same, basic vanilla Reach terms of casual team play, and they're selfish?