Ok, fair enough, I just wanted to make things clear, not just to you but also to posts like Neo's. Calling him a tool was not only unjustified, but frankly a pretty poor use of the term 'tool.' But you're right about your last post, so I'll leave it at that. The only AA change made is Armor Lock, which helps, but I still dislike it pretty strongly. I think the discussion came up because people were talking about whether others like vanilla Reach, why or why not, and what 343 are trying to do with the Classic direction that this TU is aimed at catering to. In that sense, voicing dislike of the AA mechanic, much as it may be a pretty old complaint, was bound to come up.
AAs also lack in another compartment: Visual feedback. There is (besides the jetpack) no way of telling what kind of AA they have until they use. (The color change on the back is neglectable) Shooting a rocket at a person to find out he has Armor Lock equipped is quite an unpleasant surprise to say the least. It's like how Reach's Overshield was at release. It didn't give any visual feedback. You couldn't tell if someone had it resulting into confused and frustrated players.
May I ask how you'd feel about my ideal situation of Sprint starts being standard but other AAs being available as pickups? That resolves the core 'even playing field' issue, though albeit in a way which still involves your perceived downsides of Sprint being part of the off-spawn experience. Basically what I'm asking is whether you, like me, believe that Sprint has upsides as well as downsides, and that the downsides can be addressed with mechanic changes. Or rather returns to more established Halo methods, like melee bleed through and faster kill times to counter the escape/CQC rush aspects, whilst maintaining the increased potential for map movement and increased onus on communication/in depth movement prediction to keep track of enemies. Visual feedback is an issue, I agree, though not as important as the basic premise of an even playing field. If that could be addressed too then I'd be pretty damn happy.
Sprint certainly one of the least offensive AAs, and I wouldn't mind it if we only had it spawn and no other AAs. But honestly it's more of a 'it's less flawed' then of 'it's better' case. Sprint is not as offensive because you can only run one way, forward. You can't quickly go backwards or sideways like you can with Evade making it a lot more bearable. On the other hand there are definitely flaws. Getting Sprint at spawn (not initial spawn) negates the penalty for dying in objective games. You died and should suffer the consequences. You shouldn't be able to get across the map so quickly compared to the objective carrier. What Sprint also did is make Bungie lower the standard movement speed to compensate. Default movement speed is slower than ever and even with custom settings it can't really be fixed without making movement feel slippery. Anyway, in Reach I think the best option is what you proposed. Giving people Sprint at spawn and put AAs on the map as pick-ups. This way you can also specify which AAs you want on a certain map without needing to make a specific gametype for every map. Also, having to face one person who has an AA (besides Sprint) is a lot better than having to face an entire team using them. For Halo 4 I'd rather want AAs completely gone or completely redesigned. Just not even remotely like what they are right now. That would be an incredible turn-off for me.
ZB seems like a pretty good improvement,but they should make the limit of ZB maps a bit more.Maybe they could add it into Reflection?Overall I think it's an improvement....sometimes.
I agree. In this sense I like the principle that MLG implement in their gametypes, which is having a 5 second delay before you can use Sprint off respawn. Twin this with the fact that MLG implement AAs in exactly the way I described, with Sprint starts and other AAs as pickups, and you have my favourite form of Reach right there. Again, bringing it back to MLG gametypes, I like the 110 movement and jump settings, and don't think they bring too much slipperiness. I'd enjoy 120 speed more if the slippery strafe wasn't so prominent, which I agree is a big downer on this setting. Much as I like Reach, I admit that I'd kinda like to see a return to traditional Halo formulas with 4. That said, I don't want the BR back. I maintain that single shot > burst weapons, at least for the competitive play that I prefer, and the netcode issues which burst weapons were in part designed to address seem to be resolved now, since the DMR works pretty beautifully in terms of shot registration. Still, I don't consider this a departure, since the Pistol preceded the BR and was single shot rather than burst.
Getting headshots with the DMR is so much more satisfying than getting them with the BR. Love mah DMR.
See, here's another example of just liking different kinds of gameplay. Not knowing what AA they have until they use it is another thing I enjoy (the obvious exception being jetpack). I do agree that the overshield sucked when there was no indication though, and the flames following the person wasn't a great way to fix it. It should be the glittering overshield of old
Of course,I don't really see a difference with the BR and the DMR.Except,accuracy,spread,and of course the major visual change....I think we just went off topic for a little but we were at least talking about the accuracy and spread...-_- Sorry
Can't be disappointed without exceptions. There are legitimate complaints about reach though but with the numbers been less I put it down to subconscious peer pressure in a way. As an example: one 7yr old goes I hate AL while punching him and he doesn't die then I die then talks to other 7yr olds who do the same thing and are like IKR!! lets complain on forums other people Read the conversations (not knowing there 7yr old playing there first game) and they see bunch of people hate AL(for all they know there Pro's) then it becomes ok to hate AL then more people see there conversations then it becomes Cool to hate AL regardless of facts mixed in with AL can be annoying but instead of just dealing with it like other annoying things since it's cool to hate AL they openly ***** about it and receive praise. (remember I said there are legitimate complaints but this is why I believe the majority of people dislike armorlock/bloom and Reach.) As for anyone who cares the reason I like Reach is because it's less DMRvDMR in aiming and strafe battles and more strategic. Instead of 1 guy dominating with his ability to wiggly the analogs amazingly, You can beat him by getting the highground or better weapon or armor ability. Also the weapons are all equal(the way I've always wanted to play Halo) instead of a dominating BR/DMR. Don't get me wrong I like the TU(No bloom) for those DMRvDMR strafing battles are fun (sometimes) so people who like that style should get to play it.
This makes no sense. You act like strafing was the thing you had to do to win. Well, it wasn't. Getting the power weapons and positioning yourself well has always been a big part of Halo. That way you often win battles before they even start. It always has been more important than being able to strafe. And yet, we can still not strafe properly in Reach because of the movement acceleration. If you go into one direction and instantly try to move into to opposite direction it will slow down and 'slowly' pick up speed until you're at the top movement speed again. Reach is the first game to introduce this. Part of the reason why people complain about grenades is the fact that you can't move around as easily and thus can't avoid them as easily.
Am i the only one that uses Active Camo to sneak past enemy lines in objectives or when multiple enemies are coming by and not for camping? In my opinion the only good AAs are Sprint, Jetpack and Drop Shield. EDIT: I hope that Halo 4 gets Equipment just like Halo 3.
I can't really see this being the reason either. Unthinking fanboyism is just as prevalent as unthinking criticism, just look at the Bungie forums. The fact is that Reach did deviate from the Halo formula in more fundamental ways, and as such has alienated many. Of course it's impossible to pindown a tipping point, past which the change is 'too much' and people leave en masse, but I think Reach demonstrates this principle pretty well in practical terms. Honestly I'm a little sad about this because I think it's possible to glean a much more fundamentally solid Halo game from Reach than was true of H3, but the fact is it takes effort, and either a dedication to customs or a big restriction on which playlists you frequent. This is always gonna put people off, sadly. That said, I'm not even sure that retaining the core Halo mechanics in more fundamental terms would have brought Reach the same amount of success as past Halos. More than is currently the case, possibly, but other big FPS games have been eating in to Halo's position for a while now, with CoD really coming in to its own and stuff like GoW and BF3 looking to keep up pressure throughout its lifespan. Fair enough, I can totally appreciate that level of enjoyment for Reach. I would agree with Overdoziz that power weapons and positions have always been the defining factor of one guy putting the team in his backpack, and tbh I find the DMR more deadly than the H3 BR simply because mastering bloom to a level that can beat the majority of the population (to the level which bloom can be 'mastered' anyway, which is significant, but the luck is always present) isn't too difficult, and once you do you have a gun with such amazing range and situational power that it's staggering. My one point would be the bolded sentence, specifically the part about AAs. What I take issue with here is the fact that you don't "get" an armour ability, you simply choose it off spawn. I'd argue that this negates the worked-for-reward tradition of Halo, and doesn't even contribute much to the strategic side because it's basically a game of rock, paper scissors in trying to beat someone with a specific talent, position or weapon. It's not a very dynamic mechanic, and as such, whilst it does detract from the "aim beats all" focus that some would say previous Halo games had more of, it doesn't add to the meta game to counter balance that, it just makes beating someone who is better than you a little easier without much demand on the player themselves in any form. This is why I'd love to see AAs used as pickups, and why I think that doing so would have brought something new to the game and also added so much to the standard Halo formula, rather than detracting from it by changing the core principle of spawning in on a level playing field.
All I can say is, Evade and Sprint should be the only armor abilities. I don't mind 85% bloom, in fact I think it's fine. I do enjoy ZB very much. I hope Halo 4 is more similar to H3 and H2.(It probably will be)
Evade should've stayed Elite-only. It's fine in Invasion because there's not that much CQC, but with small Spartans in CQC Evade is horrible. And being able to get across half of the map with Evade on small maps kills Objective gametypes.
This. One of my key points for feedback on the TU Beta playlist is that Evade didn't work as a starting AA when Bungie ran things, and it still doesn't work now. I seriously hope 343 are open to trying AAs as pickups. You can even make the AAs themselves gametype specific in forge, so there'd be no problem with having to balance AA choices on maps for Slayer, asymmetrical and symmetrical objective. Why Bungie included them as forgeable items and then completely failed to exploit this awesome aspect of their usage is beyond me.
I might be wrong that's just what I think and is highly opinionated and no factual evidence behind it. Power weapons and positions have always been a factor but aiming and strafing skills where a bigger factor. Yea DMR(with bloom) is deadly but not more deadly then the BR in comparison to the rest of the weapon arsenal in there respective games. But that's exactly what I mean,Rock paper scissors basically defines strategy except in this case Rock can beat paper it's just harder which does make it dynamic if everyone has no AA or just sprint then all the dynamics of default Reach is still the same but adding in more AA's makes it more complex (assuming there all balanced to avoid AL discussion) I wouldn't mind playing games where AA's are pick ups to see how it goes but IMO AA's are to weak to be pick ups that just last one life with a high respawn so there would have to be a lot or quick respawns IMO. And to reply specifically to the bold part, That is the point of strategy, To beat someone who is better then you easier.(or beat someone worse then you better) -If I choose sprint I'm going for the sword and staying in CQC because Sword+Sprint is a good strategy and I can beat someone who has better aim and strafing ability then I do easy. -If someone has rockets I'm picking AL and standing on ramps to waste his rockets then kill him while reloading or swapping weapons.(and in doing so beating the guy who beat me to rockets easily) In my OP I like the Strategy I'm talking about is using "Turn based strategy type" skills to give you an advantage when you need to use your "Real time FPS type" skills and the TU update is catering more to the "Real time FPS" skill set. So your right there might not be much demand on the player for Real time FPS skills but that's because he used Turn based strategy skills to make it that way and that's his reward, And I'm fine with them been on spawn because everyone has them available so there is no advantage to one team.
Rock, paper, scissors implies that no strategy is involved and you can win based on luck. Which is true to a certain extend with AAs.