S

Great layout, but seems a tad....dull for the foot soldiers. I mean, yeah, there's the tunnels, but other than that....not a whole lotta cover, entirely flat...I mean, it's beautifully forged, but it seems to mostly be bent on a concept (and executed superbly) instead of an all around map.

 

How could anyone have had trouble orienting themselves on a 2...

 

Well sometimes I'd have trouble figuring out which base I was at, but other than that I had no problem.

 

Looks pretty good thus far.

 

I'm just going to keep this short. (EDIT: And...I failed) The map was surprisingly good, but a few problems held the map back. First off, the map had a dynamic spawn system in every gametype, including flag (lulwut?). And next, the power weapons you have provided on the map are basically useless, being overpowered by vehicles each and every time. I liked the fact that vehicles weren't too overpowering (mostly because bad players were always in them, and they weren't too difficult to escape either) next to infantry (other than the power weapons being pretty useless). My next problem was that the "sewers" felt rough to walk across (might I suggest changing from walls to a more smooth surface?) and the area was easily campable. My final problem was (not map related) that the gametypes you tested with was intentionally broken and imbalanced. Anyone who has been playing Reach for more than a few months would know that you don't put Evade as a starting load-out along with Armor Lock, that Camo and Armor Lock always break games as starting load-outs, and that Jetpack (Only for this map) and Hologram are completely useless as starting load-outs. More problems with your gametype included the annoying-as-hell double-melee exploit (Allows bad players to get an undeserved and unskillful kill on you just by sprinting forward and tapping the melee button twice. Guaranteed as either a kill or a trade.) However, I did like that you had DMR/AR starts to appeal to both a casual and competitive crowd. Hopefully you can fix these problems (the gametype one is an especially easy one) before releasing the map, and I'm interested to see how it will play without bloom. Overall I'd give it an 8/10. With these problems fixed, I could definitely see this winning a FHF/Feature and/or becoming one of my favorite BTB maps (I might be primarily an MLG player, but even we enjoyed Headlong and Containment back in the day, along with maps like Midship, Lockout, and Warlock.)

You think I should give China their wall back now?

 

CTF didn't have dynamic spawns the last time I played it.

 

If you were playing big team slayer the default loadouts are sprint, armor lock, jetpack, active camo, and hologram. For objective games they are sprint, evade, jetpack, and active camo. If you have a problem with the btb gametypes, take it up with 343 or someone. I can see how a MLG player might not know about this.

 

You should've stopped typing here.
Makes you sound a lot less like a jerk.

 

Jerk or not, he makes a good point. 4shot's gametype criticism basically boils down to "I don't like armor abilities." He could have more easily said "I'd like to play this with MLG gametypes" and left it at that. 90% of custom games have those starting armor abilities (or some of them) and the "double melee exploit," because 90% of players aren't MLG-oriented (rightly or wrongly).

re: the CTF spawns, they were definitely not dynamic the last couple times I played on the map. I went over the spawn system with Duck and tested it several games after that. I have no idea when you played the map though, so... shrug.

@ nibbles - the orientation problem comes in when you spawn in one of the long stretches in the middle area, with no view of the outside world, and not a lot of visible color or landmarks either. You can usually figure it out by looking both ways a couple times, but by that point you might have wasted critical time that you could have used to get moving, or worse, you might be dead already (since spawning in the middle of the map is generally the most dangerous place to be). Still, my biggest criticism of S is this one. I don't have any other major problems with the map.

 

Must have been an older version, then. This was pretty late feedback.

 

*facepalm*

And this, my friends, is why ForgeHub has such a bad reputation as a community. Users who make posts and don't know what the **** they're talking about need to just stop posting altogether.

This isn't an issue of whether or not the matchmaking variant is being used or not. I can guarantee you this map will never get into matchmaking. As disappointing as that may be to the creators and the fans of the map, it's 100% true. Hardly any maps, especially good ones, ever make it into matchmaking. Players in Social enjoy maps with many exploits over maps that are balanced and (usually) fun for all players. With that being said, why not use a more balanced game variant if the map is never going to make it out of custom games? It takes up 5 minutes of your time, or less if you use a pre-made variant such as MLG or NGL. You're given all these options to change things in order to create the most balanced gametype, and yet you choose to use the least balanced ones. SMH.

Is everyone on ForgeHub illiterate? It's ridiculous how many people fail to read posts correctly and in turn make themselves look like complete idiots. You say I don't like Armor Abilities. You're right, but without Armor Abilities, Reach is broken. It seems like Bungie designed Reach around AA, instead of designing AA around Reach. Anyways, what I said is that only Sprint should be left in, since no 2 AA balance well together. Anyone who has played Reach for more than a few months will notice this.

As for the MLG gametype part, you're still wrong. All I said is I wanted a more balanced gametype, MLG or not. I don't care if you use DMR/AR starts. As long as the gametype is balanced, it's fine. A map cannot shine with a broken gametype holding it back.

And yes, I played an older version of the map. There were dynamic spawns in the older version, even in CTF. From the looks of it, the other problems I had have not been fixed.

 

So to sum up, your opinion is pretty much how I characterized it: you'd prefer to play the map with MLG settings. Damn my illiteracy...

You should think about chilling out. There is simply no reason to go into a rage here. And there are ways to rebut someone else's argument without calling them an "illiterate "complete idiot."

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Edited by merge:

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I think pyro's point, minus the hostility, is that you're criticizing something that has exactly nothing to do with S. You could literally copy and paste the section of your post about armor abilities and the double melee into any map thread on this forum, because almost all of them get tested at least some of the time with default gametype settings. And the same vast majority of maps will get released without gametype recommendations. In effect, the argument you're making is off-topic, and it's also extremely well-trodden ground. We all know that armor lock is perceived as broken by many (for the record, I am also not a fan) and that camo is a favorite of campers and snipers and camping snipers. We know that hologram needs buffing. We can have a whole discussion on that and I will agree with a lot of what you have to say - though not all of it. But the bottom line is that this thread is about a map, not whatever few gametypes were used in testing it. The only reason to talk about gametypes in a map thread is 1. if it's a minigame or some other map with an assigned custom gametype; or 2. if the map somehow makes particular armor abilities way over- or under-powered. Otherwise, it's just going down the dead end alley of competitive vs. casual play and how badly Bungie screwed the pooch, and this far after release date, how is that conversation even interesting any more?

 

Why do people immediately assume that was meant to be argumentative. I can see how you could take it as such, but I was merely stating what the armor abilities were since you said you play mostly MLG. Generally when maps like these are played in parties, it's with the standard BTB gametype because people are lazy, and it's the gametype everyone is expecting. I have found Evade to be quite powerful on this map since that's all I use, but I have also seen people use Active Camo, and Sprint quite effectively. Jetpacks are not all that useful on here but I think everyone can deal with that.

Again, I apologize for any offense caused by that post. It was meant to be helpful, not hateful or insulting to anyone.

 

No problem. If we have any more off-topic posts to make, let us take them in a PM. The mods are watching us...

 

pyro - I'm pretty sure it was this part: "I can see how a MLG player might not know about this." That sounds pretty condescending and sarcastic. Of course it's possible you meant it exactly at face value, but it comes off differently, I think. Anyway, agreed that this is all OT, so let's get back to talking about S (or not talking at all).

 

I liked what I saw on new S. It's not quite the same, but changes are necessary. You know I tore down Red base on Barky pretty late into testing and re-made it entirely, which led to a huge improvement. I hope the new infantry rooms help with flow, which admittedly was a problem with almost no infantry only areas. The hog banks are nice too, I can't wait for a new age of driving madness!

 

Good luck with those spawns, hope that me killing you on here helped you out. If you ever need someone to kill you again, you know who to ask.