THANK YOU! I can't stand that map. Out of the maps they offer.. Trident has to be the best in my opinion. I despise Mt. Lam Lam. (makes me think of llama for some reason.. the animal). Wayont is meh. I actually like Renegade for some of it but it does has its down sides. Abridged is really good as well. I really like the tunnel.. no one uses it often though (that is Abridged right?) And I have not played enough of Team Slayer to have an opinion on the maps there.
It is interesting to get feedback on what people like and don't like. My experience over the last few days (since I got back into BTB and am starting to learn the new maps myself) is that if Hemorrhage is offered at all, it is chosen by a margin ranging from 2 to 1 to as much as 10 to 1 about 80% of the time. The other 20% of the time, the choice is split between the other maps sort of evenly. In 9 straight hours of playing BTB, I recall playing back to back Hemorrhage in triples multiple times (back to back at least three times in a row). And I am not including when what is chosen when Hemorrhage is not a choice. I could go into depth on what I think of the other maps, but the point of this thread is that Hemorrhage has a popularity that none of the other maps can touch... or the other maps are so bad that they should be replaced with newer maps ASAP. Those are the only two possible conclusions I can come to. I just don't understand how those other maps can remain in the play list when they are so unpopular. Even I get tired of Hemorrhage, but I cringe at playing on the others...
As someone who will happily vote for Renegade or Mt. Lam Lam over Hemorrhage every single time I get the chance, I have no idea.
Yes I can, I said it was everyones "fall back" map and if everyone's primary vote is random other maps then most of the time people will rather hemorrhage over the random other map they do not like hence it's a backup map(and they know everyone else likes it or at least as a backup map) so it will be picked over other maps a lot therefor becoming "Popular" and a "fall back" map at the same time. Trying to disprove my comment with semantics seriously..
I still say its for the splatters and lack of anti vehicle weapons... And the super easy sniping ofcourse. Lets face it, how many other maps will you get betrayed or shot at when you take the wraith or sniper first.
Am I the only one here who actually enjoyed Paradiso? Trident is decent. Mt. Lam Lam is meh. I actually enjoy Utopie. Wayont is good, but only for objective.
Hemmorhage, no matter why haters of btb say, is the definition of btb, hence it will be selected almost every time. Bungie makes frequent updates to maps in other playlists but does almost nothin to btb. As best I recall they have removed tanks from hemorrhage, fixed it's kill zones, thrown some mostly bad community maps into the playlist, and done nothing else. If they cared about the playlist I'm sure we would see many more good maps and the bad ones would be gone.
Well, actually I found Paradiso fun for the first few months of Reach, but then it started getting annoying after a while (mainly because of overpowering scorpions). It still is a decent map from my perspective.
I believe the reason everyone votes for Hemmorhage is because it's the fat kid of btb maps. In other words the "enjoyment" people got off instantly spawn killing people over and over again, can be experienced in Hemmorhage. I mean you can easily dominate and rack up kills in Hemmorhage. They should have kept Valhalla it was in my opinion extremely good. Of course this is coming from someone who use to goose very often so I maybe biased.
Paradiso is my favorite map. I don't care if the banshee is OP 3 counters are available Laser,Scorpion,Sniper The reason I like it is because I always feel like I'm playing a game of chess in the sense it's extremely strategic not just a game as apposed to other maps that feel like run and gun game (run to enemy asap and kill them asap doesn't matter where doesn't matter how). -Enemy has tank get laser/banshe/tank or sniper then find a good vantage point, Other wise stay around the mountain where tank cannot reach. -Enemy has banshee get laser/tank/sniper and be stealthy even without those weapons still be stealthy and use a lot of cover if a banshee doesn't know where you are it can't kill you. -Around the outside of the mountain is vehicle Territory if you cannot kill(or evade) a vehicle don't go out there, Stay in the mountain. Heaps of stuff like that makes me think 24/7 whats the best strategy depending what the enemy has what our team has what will spawn when etc etc so complicated and fun because when your team knows these strategies(Not talking about spawn killing either) you can win the game purely on been smart.(don't need to have good aim/strafing/etc when your in a tank and there in a mongoose) Well that's why I like it some people might like a simple run and gun map and they wont like this map fair enough different people like different maps.
* Trident is awesome * Utopie is a nice improvement, especially considering how terrible Paradiso is * Wayont is decent, but the bases are way OP they should remove the 2nd floor of the bases * Renegade has the same problem as Valhalla: 90% of the power weapons spawn at the base, so everyone is waiting there and betraying each other. * Mt Lam Lam is pretty poor, but not THAT bad. * Abridged is friggin huge and the falcons die instantly by Plasma + Rocket launcher overall: 1. Trident 2. Boneyard 3. Utopie 4. Wayont 5. Spire 6. Hemmorhage 7. Boardwalk 8. Wayont 9. Renegade 10. Abridged 11. Mt Lam Lam
Community maps in MM are either so bad that people don't want to play on them or the other alternative offers more power weapons, vehicles, etc. I like both Utopie and Paradiso but i despise Abridged. As for Hemmhorage, its ok but its a disgrace to the map that bungie made 10 years ago. More maps from this site should be added to MM.
People will vote for maps they can exploit. Fact. That's part of why some maps we don't consider good get voted, people will enjoy a map they do well on. Why do you think pinnacle gets so many votes? "Oh hey I'm on red team, spawn trapping is fun! So is camping the red tower! This map is awesome!" While everyone I've ever played with just insta-votes it (including me), and that's because I play with people from the forging community. But we are not the majority, therefore there needs to be a map that is balanced yet fun for people outside of our community as well.
He's got a point there. I happen to like Abridged though. It's got a decent layout, though some of the weapon spawns are a little awkward, and the hemmorage side seems cluttered. I'm OK with pre-fab, as long as it works, like the re-make of lockout/blackout in classic. Spire wouldn't be so bad if the banshee was taken out. Renegade is good, but I personally don't like it. Mt. Lam-Lam is great for custom games, and I'm a fan of the neutral Rocket 'Hog. I still hate paradisio/utopie. It's avalanches' worst remake ever. I know you'll fight me on it, but it's really similar. I'd like another BTB contest, the playlist needs better maps. Oh, and what ever happened to BTB Elite slayer on Countdown? That was really fun.
Give me Headlong, Waterworks, Containment and Terminal. I don't enjoy playing on any of the BTB Reach maps. You mean the awful gametype on the way too small map? That was the dumbest **** I've seen in BTB so far.
So this made me think about why I choose Hemorrhage every chance I get instead of the others. And I think that my motivation is that it is SIMPLE. It has a tiny base and nothing else. No other structures to concern yourself with. Nothing else to explore. Either you are camping waiting for the enemy to come knocking at your door, or you are out killing and chilling. The other maps have these complex structures everywhere and that detracts for me. I don't want to have to divide my attention between two or three structures. But that is just me... [br][/br]Edited by merge: I certainly did not mean to make it sound like I was challenging your statement. I thought about what you said and wanted to just point out that there was an alternate way of viewing the matter. I do not know which is correct, but they are relatively similar to each other. In other words, either they choose Hemorrhage because they LOVE it, or because they HATE the others. I was just trying to make that distinction for everyone's consumption. Sorry if I didn't word it right. [br][/br]Edited by merge: I totally agree, that Hemorrhage has this one distinct difference. Too many spawns in the open, and if the enemy tank is in the area, you are toast. The other maps have lots of structures and rocks to spawn behind or around and I suppose you might even say was more intelligently thought out. [br][/br]Edited by merge: I tend to agree with you to some point. I like Utopie because it doesn't have any tank, and the two teams have to scramble for the laser and the only Banshee. I got the Banshee in one game and racked up over 20 kills in one run. After that, I realized the Banshee and the laser were the key to the game. [br][/br]Edited by merge: This is a good perspective, one I had never considered as a motivation by some. But I can see this is a reasonable expectation.
I agree with you that the simplicity of hemmorhage makes it great but I think it's just one more thing to love about it. The flat open space, lots of vehicles, and of course a tank for each team is what I go for in btb more than simplicity. Some of these new maps added to the playlist like mt lam lam and wayout feel more like the squad battle style. One of the other things I love about hemmorhage is the lack of a laser because those just ruin btb. It should take skill and coordination to bring down a vehicle with a good driver. Not an easy shot with a weapon you got by bum rushing the middle.
Hemorrhage is such an awful map. -It's too big (Especially compared to Blood Gulch/Coagulation.) -Lack of any cover whatsoever. Have fun spawning in the open miles away from your base. It's even more fun when your opponents are camping your base with a ton of vehicles. -Sniper is way too dominant. A sniper on the ledge near red base can see ~90% of the map. -The map doesn't work well with good netcode and weapons that you don't have to lead. You can be hit pretty much everywhere on the map even by DMRs.
I'm just going to stay out of the BTB playlist until the Headlong and Timberland remakes get in. I'm sure I'm not alone on this one.