You do make a good point, but my post was directed towards Halo 4. People were asking for essentially the same game with a couple new features and another story. I want a New game, not an updated version of the same game. I just used CE:Anniversary as an example. I knew it was $40, just didn't say it because I'm lazy at 12:24 AM.
I've actually used the FC2 Map Editor a few times. It's powerful, but it's also very slow and clunky. Everything's buried under a hundred menus. Forge isn't FC2. It isn't GalaxyEdit. It isn't some massively overengineered behemoth of a program. It's designed for accessibility, as others here have pointed out. That is its only strength, but it's a damn good one.
I think it would be amazing if bungie added a sort of topography editor, perhaps similar to the one in FC2's clip. However, I love Forge more than any other in game map editor because of Halo's art style.
Aaah, but I still rate forge mode above this. In FCs' editor, one can only place either premade buildings, or edit the terrain. One cannot edit with precision, and nor can one make a competitive map, besides a whole heap of trees and buildings. Thats why I think that this would never, ever, ever be good in halo. Forge 2.0 as it is is about blocks, not terrain, and walls are better for a map than mountains. Nuff said.
You know, it's not like if they would implement terrain-editing, that we wouldn't have any walls and stuff. Forge would NOT become unable to build competetive maps automatically... Imagine it like Forge nowadays + ability to edit terrain (would be friggin epic xD) ----> THOUGH the reason it will (hopefully) not exist, FILESIZE (like every other intelligent person mentioned)... waaayyy too much time, to download just 1 map... The idea with several "forge worlds" seems the best to me... I don't know whether there's a difference if they would give us seperated maps (coviestyle etc.) or one big map with different terrains. If it was one big-ass Forge World -> several different styles in one map, connected with teleporters. sounds good^^ invasion *_* spartans gettin' into a covenant factory (a GOOD lookin' coviefactory with all this purple walls and stuff like that ) blabla with falcons etc.
This clip seems more appropriate with every passing day: Everythings Amazing & Nobodys Happy - YouTube Anyway, I don't think it's feasible for Forge to emulate a true map editor for reasons already explained by others. The functionality and popularity of it lies in its relative simplicity. I wouldn't mind if they found ways to fake some of the easier traits of true map editors though - terrain objects; resizeable and reskinnable structure pieces; weather FX; etc. Having more control to create a very different, unique map experience is always a good thing, but they have to fundamentally stick to the things that make Forge what it is.
What would make Forge 3.0 awesome is if they let you spawn trees. Yeah, trees are the future for Halo. Red trees, yellow trees, brown trees, green trees, you name it. And if you could edit every branch to your liking! And maybe have an active growth system where you can actually grow the trees! Maybe have a new weapon called the Water Pail which when used near trees, makes them grow up to two times faster! I'm getting chills just from thinking of the possibilities! Yeah... I think this is the future for Forging. But for real, they need to make more natural objects.
My dream: A combination of the Far Cry 2 map builder and Forge. Landscaping would be easy with FC2 map builder and adding object would be easy with Forge.
Foxy Noxy has it right. The biggest problem with Far Cry's map editor, one I completely associate with the death of Far Cry's multiplayer, is the file size. In reach, because forged maps are uploaded in text files, sizes are under 30kb. Server load, even with millions of these maps, isn't an issue. In far cry, maps could be anything up to 20mb if I am not mistaken. Now, there's a problem here. If there's a file sharing system, which means being able to download the map without being in game with the author, then the load on those servers...It just can't happen. The biggest problem with Far Cry was because of said servers, sometimes a 20mb map could take anything between 1 minute and half an hour. Seriously. There were times I'd wait HALF AN HOUR for a game. Because of the load, everyone in the lobby needs the map pre loaded for the game to start. So you have to wait until the dude with the horrible connection downloads the map. So you say "Kick him". Then you alienate those with slower connections, and they can never get in a custom game, or a matchmaking game on a custom map, because they're always kicked. Constantly. Far Cry had massive problems. While I do want Halo 4 to have forge, I just want it to have some more features. Give us a decent item count but perhaps on a map better suited. Forge World was great and all, but it would have been better suited split into smaller maps to eliminate some framerate problems. Perhaps take some of the un-needed detail out of some of the forge items, to allow for either less framerate or more items like lights and such. A custom map editor is a horrible idea. Maybe instead of being able to generate terrain, give us quite a few more natural objects, more than rocks. Perhaps like a flat rock with grass on top, so you can make your own little islands and whatnot. As I said, a map editor on the size of Far Cry can be a good thing in some cases, but it's not going to end well either way. /rant
Besides this, I think they could realistically have terrain objects - grassy hills of various sizes and shapes. Then you have a big flat field that you can terraform by just adding and merging hills where you want them. This is not that different from what is already possible with the larger rocks. And if you were working somewhere that wasn't grassy (e.g. sand or snow) it might look even better, and be simpler for them to code.
That's what I was aiming for. All the objects would be coded into the map, so we wouldn't be generating random terrain, so the maps could stay within text files and the file size wouldn't be an issue because the load would all be server side. It's a really simple solution.
As others have said, terrain editing would instantly mean larger file sizes because it is no longer the same topography that loads. Terrain objects like nutduster said could be a viable option and for all we know maybe that is in the new forge. I could have sworn there was a "what do you want to see in the next forge" thread all ready.
Just got me thinking that. About the filesizes for FC compared to Forge. Code could be optimised actually. Stripping off the skins and stuff here, just going back to basic mountains. I assume that forge uses co-ords of pieces in the text file, hence the small file size. Make the tip of the hill, mountian whatever a single cord, and let the game engine generate it out? Again, futher optimising to prevent lag. Perhaps by rendering the mountain upon the save being opened, instead of constantly.
That's not how it works. All the forge palette pieces are coded into the file already. The only.difference is x, y, and z, rotation and location, and the number of pieces used. Coordinates for real time topography changes are much more complex. And your also missing the point, if the terrain changes then people could no longer join another player's forged map unless they downloaded it too.
Does anyone know what LBP uses for it's file types? I know it's only pseudo 3d at best (although some of the LBP2 stuff can get absolutely insane), but that has easily the most customization of any packed in level editor I've ever seen, with literally millions of maps on the servers of a somewhat unknown company, and not that bad of load times...
That's different. Those servers are made almost explicitly for map sharing. Where as Halo servers need to be split between quite a few things, such as file sharing, matchmaking e.t.c. At the same time, there's also a much higher player count. And I don't know if LBP has online MP or not, but if it didn't, I wouldn't be surprised. If it does, I'm pretty sure it only has co-op based on p2p connection.
How about simply a forge world-like map but with sections. one could be mountainous, another snowy, and another a grassy plain? I am not positive how this would affect file size, but I think it could be manageable. Would it really hurt us if instead of a 5 second download we got a 1 minute download?
For some people (such as those with a dire connection; Bloo ) a 5 second download takes long enough. The mountany area would be bad for forging. And the snowy too. BOOM. I got it! Map varients: Forge Land => Snow Land Covvy Land Desert Land Each with its own set of themed items. Items are the same, but skinned in each one.
If they were split into 3 different maps, sure. If they were all the one map, hell no. Crazy worse framerate issues right there.
I just want them to fix the coordinate system. if all the objects are an even number (and by even, I mean no differences smaller than shown by the coordinate display.) of coordinates in each dimension, then the coordinates can be used for total precision, and the fine-manipulation doesn't have to be used by people who don't want to just to make the map smooth. also, make the coordinates on a fixed corner of an object, rather than the geometric center. if the coordinate for a 1*1*1 block is (0,0,0) then I want a 1*2*1 placed at (0,0,0) to be one unit taller than the 1*1*1, rather than half a unit above and half a unit below the original. if all the objects are aligned by the same corner, and that corner was also the geometric rotation point for all the objects, alignment would be made much simpler. for non-squares, the game could display a partially-transparent box around the edges of the object when selected, and that could help hugely with alignment of non-phaseable objects, or objects that are circular or otherwise oddly-shaped. adding forge maps to allow different structural styles would be awesome, since although there are plenty of objects, there's only so many ways you can make a wall, and several of them look relatively out-of-place. and my final suggestion: bring back weapon holders!