Remake Dictator (Guardian remake)

Discussion in 'Reach Competitive Maps' started by Wolf Gamer, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    Hello Forgehub, this is my first map that I am submitting (there may be more to come).

    May I present to you :
    Dictator V1.7 DL Link:
    http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=21284566&player=W0lf%20Gamer
    [​IMG]
    Yes, it's another guardian remake, because I wasn't satisfied with other ones that I have played. Most of the jumps are there (apart from sniper bottom to sniper top), and moving through the map is as smooth as possible.
    There is also no slow frame rate when all pieces in view.


    -------------- EDIT --------------------------
    V1.7 is now ready =
    http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=21284566&player=W0lf Gamer
    V1.7 changes:
    - Added some more rocks
    - more efficient pieces used
    - Top of blue room now more aesthetically pleasing
    - Gold light added again
    - Sniper ramp now more curved
    - Neatened up sniper ramp railings
    - Cover for red spawn
    - Sniper ramp more like original
    - neatened up outer walls and ceilings
    - narrowed shotgun hallway
    - Added blue spawn roof & door
    - Made gold room more to scale
    - Made green area more accurate (thanks to PeteTacular 42 for pointing out errors)
    - Made gold to blue lower ramp more curved
    - added more walls to stop jetpackers escaping

    [V1.7 pics will be up]



    pictures:
    Green area[V1.7] (jump to top mid works, concussion rifle spawn replaces brute shot)
    [​IMG]


    Sniper ramp
    [​IMG]

    Red spawn
    [​IMG]
    Sniper top and bottom
    [​IMG]
    Gold top entrance
    [​IMG]

    Blue hall (with explosives)
    [​IMG]

    Blue room (v1.6)
    [​IMG]

    Blue spawn (v1.6)
    [​IMG]


    Blue to gold jump (V1.6)
    [​IMG]

    Blue window and lift (V1.6)
    [​IMG]

    Bottom gold (V1.6)
    [​IMG]
    Gold room (top) (v1.6)[​IMG]
    Bottom mid (hammer spawn)
    [​IMG]

    Camo lift to centre (V1.6)
    [​IMG]

    Gold to blue room (v1)
    [​IMG]

    Overview: (v1)
    [​IMG]
    Weapon list:
    Sniper rifle
    Concussion Rifle
    Gravity Hammer
    x6 Sticky grenades

    Ideal Gametype: Slayer DMRs

    DL Link (V1.7):http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=21284566&player=W0lf Gamer

    Thanks, W0lf Gamer
     
    #1 Wolf Gamer, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  2. Caucasian Invasion

    Caucasian Invasion Forerunner

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    Wow very good. This is definitely one of, if not the most accurate Guardian remakes ive seen. the colors are great, and i love how you made the hammer spawn. Looks great. definitley got my Dl
     
  3. AtlasIsShruggin

    AtlasIsShruggin Forerunner

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    Yes, yes, and yes!

    Not only is this a good remake but you have given it a good identity and a unique look. To many remakes are just floating in mid air but you have done a great job of making it actually look like a map

    -Atlas
     
  4. Hulter

    Hulter ^Raindear
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    Sloppy green, vastly oversized gold jump up and landing and inefficent object useage.
    Won't be suprised when it screenlags.

    Nice looking top mid though.

    Pardon me, but can you please explain to me in what way this remake is accurate?

    Original gold jump:
    [​IMG]

    The on of this map:
    [​IMG]
     
    #4 Hulter, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  5. Dino

    Dino Forerunner
    Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree with Hutler. That gold jump area is way to large and it looks like the only way you can make that jump is either to jump onto the side wall, jet-pack, or to sprint-jump. The sniper ramp also looks a little off as well. Where the plasma grenades sit there, it looks like that small area is just to long (that's what she said) and it should be shortened. And also, where the camo sits, that area looks a bit off too. Other than that, I like the middle and mid-bottom area. And I also liked the great usage of the receiver nods in the center and the way the grav lifts look near the camo spawn.
     
  6. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    I'll take that into account when I (can be bothered to) make a second version
     
  7. Caucasian Invasion

    Caucasian Invasion Forerunner

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    The 2 pics you showed are actually very similar... the one on halo 3 just has a totally different camera angle, giving it the appearence of being different. Im positive framerate wont be much of a problem because im looking at the overview and their isnt to many objects overlapping. i cant fly around the map now, but i will tommorow. i know this site is about of constructive criticism, and some of your statement may be valid, but the way you came across seemed a bit over the line.
     
  8. Dino

    Dino Forerunner
    Senior Member

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    Not really. The golden room jump door should be protruding out more, but it's not and the walkway below seems rather long. But, I'm not saying he didn't do a good job with the map, because he did, he just didn't make everything look the way it should.
     
  9. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    correct, I didn't really intend to make it to 1:1 scale. I incorporated the curved wall(s) into the jump, so that players can get up from the lower levels in two jumps.
    (Be in mind that this wasn't made for the Halo 3 jump heights, I had to edit it for the default Halo Reach jump heights) ... and the area seems to flow better with that area being a bit more open.
    I'll try to post an image of the jumps in the OP.
     
  10. Audienceofone

    Audienceofone Forerunner
    Senior Member

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    Despite the screenlag which I highly expect from this map (prove me wrong if you can), it is a fantastic first map post, I wish I had waited until I had something of this quality before I started releasing maps. You have done a great job here, though I would like to see more efficient use of pieces. For instance instead of two walls next to each other, replace both with a double wall. It makes for less situations for lag and more budget left in your savings, not to mention you save a wall piece.
     
  11. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    I'll bear that in mind when I get round to making a second version.
    On this version I've run out of budget, but thanks for the tips!
     
  12. PeteTacular 42

    PeteTacular 42 Forerunner

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    I'm actually glad you didn't make this a perfect scale map. The other remakes all felt too small, but this should definitely feel more suitable for Reach standards. One of the things about Reach is that explosions have a larger blast radius. More room in general is the way to go! Thanks for making an awesome map that is of my standards!

    I will check on this map later to see how frame rate performs since people have doubts.

    [br][/br]
    Edited by merge:


    Okay Wolf Gamer, I took a closer look at your map. Frame rate wasn't as bad as some of the others I've seen, so that's a plus. I discovered what you need to do is get rid of the yellow light. It's what has been causing frame rate drop. In case you didn't know, glass, lights (including objects that produce light) and z-fighting (with objects interlocking) are all causes of frame rate drop. Try to use pieces wisely so there is less used.

    Unfortunately, it lags majorly for split screen. If it's really important to you that it doesn't lag much for split screen, then you have to do a lot of redesigning. However, taking away the yellow light helped a lot with performance for one player screen. The only place it had it a little was sniper spawn (and that was when zoomed in across hallway underneath).

    If you need me to explain to you thoroughly how to get rid of z-fighting, let me know. It takes up a good sized paragraph for me to explain, but it's not as complicating as it seems.

    My last bit of feedback is about cover. There seems to be some cover pieces missing that make players feel exposed in certain areas. Mainly the elbow area is exposed. I made lots of little changes to your map, but it wasn't enough to get rid of lag for split screen or anything. If you want to check it out, it's in my FS now. It's just some ideas you can use if you make a V2 for how to use some more cover. I also deleted a couple of pieces in place of the cover I used. Let me know when/if you look at it, and tell me what you think. :)

    Oh, I almost forgot! I changed weapon clips and spawn times around a little too. You left power weapons at 30 sec spawn with 2 spare clips... could be hazardous.

    Oh, another thing!! I like the open spaces a lot. It feels better for sprinting. Don't listen to people when they say to change the jump to yellow room! It's also really unique that you have a little water area by shotgun to hide in. For some reason, you instantly get killed once you go in it though, and I'm not sure you intended that. Because you don't die in it in forge mode that is. place an object in the water that brings you a little higher and you won't die once you step foot in the water.


    That was a lot to write! But I'm giving you all the feedback I can because you're map rocks! It just seems to be in beta phase at the moment... Good luck with finishing this project. It's always harder putting on the finishing touches, trust me!
     
    #12 PeteTacular 42, Jul 9, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  13. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    I love your feedback.
    I should have researched the weapon spawn times and clips, but I couldn't be bothered at the time of making/adding objectives. I will definately fix that water thing in the shotgun room .. dunno how that got there.
    I might even go on to do alpha and beta testing (which I haven't done :( )

    [br][/br]
    Edited by merge:


    V1.6 is now ready = http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=21243899&player=W0lf%20Gamer
     
    #13 Wolf Gamer, Jul 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  14. PeteTacular 42

    PeteTacular 42 Forerunner

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    Hey, could you let me know when you plan to do testing? I would enjoy playing some games on this.

    One thing I wanted to update you on is the framerate issue I brought up earlier. Sorry, I misunderstood what was causing lag. It's not the lights, but more to do with the waterfall close to the scene. I actually just learned about this myself. The reason I know this is because when you're on elbow, you're overlooking the map with the waterfall close by. It apparently takes up more memory to view the motion of the water flowing and the mist coming from the fall. If you would have made your map farther away from the flowing water, less visual from the fall would be shown. I believe your map wouldn't have any lag if the location was different.

    With that said, the lag really is hardly noticeable. Slight lag is from elbow looking up, or top of sniper tower while viewing to the left of the map (but that part is not a problem unless you are viewing the scenery and not finding people to shoot!)

    I'm just letting you know this because I'm 99% positive that you won't be able to support split screen on this map, unless you relocate it. So don't bother trying to save budget, because the actual object placement is not the problem. And when I say problem, I mean that lightly because if you're alright with just one player screen compatible, then it's nothing to worry about.

    I think what is worth testing is seeing how 8 players or more on the map perform. Without guests that is. And just see if that continues to play smoothly for the most part.
     
    #14 PeteTacular 42, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  15. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    Hmmm .... I'll try remaking it somewhere else ... any ideas where to re-locate it?
     
  16. BlondishFiber

    BlondishFiber Forerunner

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    I got to say its an good work!
    But all maps is like boring whitout lights right??
    NO!!!!
    We dont want that kind of lag!!
    So try to delete the lights and look so boring the map is becoming..
    Thats the part you are thinking decorative whit other stuff...
     
  17. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    ^ I am finding it hard to understand what you are trying to say ... :|


    The gold room light has already been removed in version 1.6, which can be found here: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=21243899&player=W0lf%20Gamer
     
    #17 Wolf Gamer, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  18. PeteTacular 42

    PeteTacular 42 Forerunner

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    No, you got me wrong. I don't think you need to remake it! That would be a lot of work. I was just letting you know that you can choose to have lights of not, but that it won't change much. One player screen is not bad at all trust me!

    Although, deleting both lights will allow you a lot more budget to fix other things on your map. I feel the more important thing to do is work on actual cover issues and such. I have a picture album for you to look over. It explains each of the changes I made and why. Dictator Fixes. Let me know if you it helpful. :)
     
  19. Wolf Gamer

    Wolf Gamer Forerunner

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    Your fixes have been taken into account and I have updated the map (with updated OP).
    Dictator v1.6 is now ready: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=21243899&player=W0lf%20Gamer
     
    #19 Wolf Gamer, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  20. iTzZz CeRTiFiED

    iTzZz CeRTiFiED Forerunner

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    i like the map but like i said before you spammed my message cause i have a better map that some1 made. the map he made in my opinion was more accurate he made a better s3 then you, and a better gold to blue. But you really did do a good job better then most that i have seen if you want to check out the map message me to compare. good luck in future maps. and there is noframe rate but lag slightly at green on the map ive got.
     
    #20 iTzZz CeRTiFiED, Jul 22, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011

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