Dead Streets v3.0 Opening I've been away from Halo, and forging for a while now. But a couple weeks ago I woke with the desire to get back into both. That being said, my first stop has been to revisit Dead Streets in the hopes of improving and "modernizing" the design. The forge community has come a long way in the five or so months I've been MIA. So I figured it was only right to bring this one up to today's standards. Before we begin, I would like to say that it is not my intention to completely redesign this map. It is to instead revitalize, and improve upon what is already there. It's layout and design are what make this map so unique. Whether that is for better or worse is a matter for each individual to decide. But changing it too much defeats the entire purpose of coming back to it. One more very important thing. This is the BETA version for Dead Streets 3.0. It was my intention to keep the attention on a preview thread until it was finished, but this works all the same. So please, hit me with as much critisism as you can possibly muster. Without forgetting to sprinkle in some compliments of course... Design Goals From the beginning, the main overarching design goal for Dead Streets has been "make it unique." I tried to refrain from looking at past Halo maps for inspiration. Instead, I wanted to come up with a brand new, off the wall design that hadn't been done before. Because of this, though, balancing weapons, and spawns has been a tremendous task as I couldn't look to "X map" or "Y map" to see how said issues were handled. I had to really do my research into how things like the spawn engine work, and why they function that way. In the end, I think these struggles have made me a much better forger than I otherwise would have been. Cut To The Chase Already! Here are the basics: Dead Streets is a small, symmetrical 4v4 slayer and objective map. It puts a strong emphasis on teamwork, while also rewarding players who are skilled on there own. Movement is constant, and the pacing is akin to that of Midship. Its fast, ferocious, and keeps you on your toes. Stay sharp, watch your corners, and you'll do fine. Here are some comparison screens of the old version, versus the new one I've been working on the past few weeks. The old version is on top, the new one on bottom. Click to "spoiler" to view them all. Below each pair is a brief description explaining why the changes were made. Comparison Screens Spoiler * Swapped the shotty with a low ammo sniper. Having one guy kinda hang back and support has really helped tone the pacing down a notch. But, giving it a low ammo count ensures that player eventually leaves. The wall behind the sniper has also been "spilt" down the middle to give players both more cover inside the base, and movement option. * Putting the spiker out in the map gave players incentive to push out, while also giving players spawning in the pillar areas something to use in combination with the newly added NR spawn. * Unfortunately, the ghosts have been removed. They felt too cramped, and made traversing anywhere but the high ground unsafe. I was really torn about removing them, but in the end I feel it was for the best. Also notice that the HK has been lit using the corner 2x2 trick, making it much more visible. You can also see that the spawning area (the elevated area behind the HK) has been lowed 3 units. It feels much more natural to move from this area at spawn. * Made green/gold ramp much more pleasing to look at, which helps guide players up the ramps towards the rocket. * Added a pair of frags to the mid HK spawn. Greater incentive to move here, relieving congestion around the edges of the map. * The overshield now rests on a small platform, making it take an extra step to grab. I felt, and so did others, that it was far too easy to just sprint across and grab. The extra jump seems to help alleviate some of that. Also, the silent lifts have been removed. They weren't really all that useful, and just took up resources that were eventually put to better use elsewhere. * As you can see in the above screens, this in conjunction with the removal of some brace-larges makes it slightly more visible. Which helps new guys realize its there BEFORE they are screaming "OMFG I SHOT HIM TEN TIMES IN THE FACE!!!" lol * Made some modifications to the "pillar" area, affording players additional cover and two extra NR's (and a pair of sticks) This two fold gives spawning players something to push with, while also adding a sneaky way into the base. * These screens illustrate some of the smaller touches I've added in aiding player navigation. * You can see here that the brace-larges that made up the front cover for the garages have now been replaced by medium bridges. These look much cleaner, and also provide more cover as they slightly wider. * This last pair shows that I replaced the concussion rifle with a low ammo rocket. I initially did this to provide players a more efficient means of combating the ghost, but stuck with it even after they were removed. Who doesn't love rockets, amriteguyz!? Video Walk Through Same deal as before, click the spoiler to view. Spoiler [bungievid]25922030[/bungievid] Miscellaneous Weapons list Spoiler DMR x 4, 30 seconds, 2 clips NR x 4, 30 seconds, 2 clips Sniper Rifle x 2, 120 seconds, 0 clips Spiker x 2 , 45 seconds, 2 clips Needler x 2, 60 seconds, 2 clips Plasma Pistol x 2, 30 seconds Rocket x 1, 180 seconds, 0 clips OverShield x 1, 180 seconds Frags x 4, 35 seconds Plasma Grenades x 4, 30 seconds Middle Health kits x 2, 35 seconds Base Health kits x 2, 45 seconds GameType Support List Spoiler 2 Flag 2 Bomb Team Slayer FOUR player FFA. I decided that I would focus on polishing these as much as possible, seeing as how they are the most popular gametypes. Also, 4 player FFA just feels like the magic number, given how much more chaotic it is than normal slayer. Spawning Spoiler This one is a huge work in progress and will be updated shortly. Check back soon! Closing And Special Thanks Holy crap that took forever to type! Anyways, I hope you all enjoy this new, and much stronger version of Dead Streets. Let me know what you like, and dislike so I can make any appropriate changes. Also, remember: Feedback is great, but suggestions are even better. Thanks for checking this one out again! Special Thanks Spoiler MrGreenWithAGun for his INVALUABLE research into Reaches spawn engine. His blog "Forging Reach" has been more than just a resource, but a saving grace for this project. I know he doesn't frequent these forums anymore, but he deserves thanks here nonetheless. Flying Shoe ILR for supporting since all the way back when I first released it almost half a year ago. Since this version of the map is technically in the "beta" stage, I'm going to wait until it's finished to post the testers. As I am too lazy to go through and edit this everytime someone new pops into a lobby lol
Nice map! I think the layout is creative and the aesthetics are forged very well. It seems as if you took a very long time to forge this. It seems to be a bunch of fun with vehicles on this map. You may have wanted to put mongooses on each side of the map, but that's just my opinion. I feel this map could be featured. It is really good!
Its a litttle small for mongooses(mongie, mongeese? lol) The ghosts really serve as a deterrent for overshield rushers at the start of a match. I think the run time between bases is something like 25 seconds without interference. Actually, the initial design for this map was nearly three times the size it is now. I planned for epic hog and ghost fights. In the end, the technical limitations of forge prevented me from reaching those lofty aspirations. Instead, I decided to focus on a tighter, more intense experience. Anyways, thanks for the feedback dude! Its very much appreciated.
Alright, alright...This is the first map I've seen of yours. First, the layout is superb, it's neat, descriptive and very well-thought out. The color in the map is perfect and I love all of the little touches you made to make the map even more colorful. I also love the little aesthetic touches everywhere. I can see you didn't go overboard and the less is more. I'm going to put this on my DL list and check it out next time I'm on. Also, I see you used a few lights and I know they cause FRL, so, I'll ask, is there any FRL in the middle looking across? Probably not, but I'm just making sure. Anyways, great map.
For the most part things are pretty smooth. I've only had a few issues on splitscreen when both players are on opposite sides and looking at the center. Its hardly noticeably, and definitely not anything game breaking. I may remove the lights in a later version if it becomes a problem, but as of now I havn't received an complaints. Also, i'm glad you like the aesthetics. As you said, I took a less is more approach. Nothing exists in this map that isn't either for callouts or orienting players on spawn.
This map made my eyes pop out of my head. Seriously this is the stuff we need more of here on forgehub. I want to add you on xbl and look at your portfolio if that would be cool. im sure i have alot to learn from you. Grats on the great map sir
This is the first map i've made that I feel is worth a damn. I was learning a lot about design while creating Dead Streets. To me, this map was all about discovering what was possible with forge. There are tons of little tricks and such that I picked up along the way that didn't show up here, that i'll be incorporating into my next map. there's actually a sneak peak of it on my fileshare One last thing. If you really are interesting in learning to better yourself as a forger, I suggest visiting reachingperfection.com and really studying Godlys' forge lessons.. That place is a great resource. I read and re-read them at least half a dozen times while making this map. Anyways, feel free to add me. I can always use an extra person to spam invites to while testing lol
A Flying Shoe Amateur Review- When I first got into a game on this, I knew I had found something special. We played a game of 4 v. 4 2 flag and before I knew it I was laughing and having an amazing time just playing Halo. I can't say I have truly felt that in reach since I first got the game in September. Dead Streets is fun, exciting, and the color scheme of the map is vibrant and interesting. I enjoyed every aspect of the aesthetics: I felt like this map captured the fun of the first time you play Halo all over again. The map also played astonishingly well. 2 flag is DA- SHIZZ (sorry, got excited) on this, we had some amazing battles getting them across and back to base, and the ghosts made it all the more entertaining (though a little cramped). The weapon set was enjoyable all around, I saw all weapons used effectively, from spiker to concussion rifle to plasma pistols to needlers to... anyway, they all worked amazingly together. The colors bring this map to life, your use of the towers as floor pieces make orientation a breeze. Every piece fits well, I saw so many great blends of textures between pieces and excellent use of lighting on the different brace_large's. The only thing I could even think of that I didn't like was the one-way shield lifts- they were rarely used and hard to see in battle. They could be cut no problem, the man cannons provide a quick way up to the concussion rifle anyway. Seriously, I almost cried playing this, this map is a gem even among the many other amazing maps on FH. I cannot wait to see where this goes, as I said before, Dead Streets brought back that great love of customs that had begun to fade for me. You have my vote next FHF (though I hope it can make it even further someday!) Overview Aesthetics- 10/10 Gameplay/Design- 9/10 Weapons- 9/10 Final: 94/100
I am humbled by your kind words my friend A lot of time and thought went into making every aspect of the aesthetics functional and consistent, rather than just pretty pieces to look at. I tired pretty much every piece in every spot on this map until I found what I felt worked just right. No area of this map was rushed, and i'm glad to hear that all that hard work has payed off. As for the colors, I may need to remove the lights in a later version to better performance on splitscreen. I will do that as an absolute last resort as I am quite in love with muh orange and green lights lol I'm also truly delighted that you guys tried out two flag. It was basically the gametype I designed this map for, so its great to hear things went smooth. Admittedly, I drew a lot of inspiration from midship. I tried to match the pacing and intensity as much as possible. You mentioned that the ghost felt a bit cramped. Well, I wanted them to function as more of a support tool. Part of balancing them on a map this small was nerfing them a bit. While there is plenty of space to escape danger when you've got the whole team pinging you, its hard to really chase players down. They function as more of a support tool, rather than an offensive weapon. As for the silent lifts... I had a five player FFA game on this last night, and they saw a little more action than usual. They are used quite sparingly, but under the right conditions can be an excellent way of sneaking up of anyone camping upper green/gold. It was also an attempt on my part to lesson combat congestion around the edges of the map in slayer games. In my mind, an alternative path to the top center was great way to do that. I'll work on making them more visible, and see it that helps. I'm pretty swamped with my next map (Awake) right now, but i'm working on a v 1.1 version of Dead Streets on the side. One last thing: Did you by chance save the film of that game? I'm looking to get a gameplay vid up soon and could use all the video sources I can get.
Im not sure what to say, I think the map really looks well thought out and like it is fantastic to play. I can see a few elements of Rat's nest and Turf and I really love that as those were two of my favorite maps, I also love that you took one design concept a Z and made it look perfect. I definately would love a well forged and designed map like this to make it into matchmaking. The only thing I see that I think could be improved is the shield lifts, I would add a railing or such on the sides to make it look more ladderish since thats technically what it is. Thats just so people would better understand they are there if they've never read this post on FH, besides that I think you did a incredible job with what forge world offers. I will definately give this a download and would like to ask to get into a game on this with you soon great job.
Thanks bro! As always the feedback is very much appreciated As for the silent lifts.... i'm working on removing pieces to eliminate the occasion FRL that pops up on splitscreen. I'm definitely looking into ways to make them more obvious though. Oh, and feel free to add me any time on xbox live. In fact, i'll just shoot you over a friends request. I have a new map that i'm working on that could always use fresh eyes and testers if you'd be interested helping out. lol glad you're loving the map dude. Add me sometime and I'll try to get you into a game on it.
This map looks absolutely awesome. I love the layout and especially the ghosts because reach's downfall was the non-existing epic hog and ghost wars. Overall you have one more download from me and a place in my custom game playlist.
I figured that I was making a map with an urban aesthetic, so I sorta HAD to incorporate vehicles lol It was pretty tough to balance two of them on a map this small, but I feel that I did a pretty good job. If anything, I nerfed them a bit too much. And in all honesty I was getting bored of all the dime a dozen purely infantry MLG style maps. I wanted something hectic, explosive, fun and a little less structured than what people have come to expect. To me, it seems that people have forgotten the good old days of 200 point flag matches on Glutch back in CE. This map draws from those experiences, and is at its essence an expression of what I believe to be TRUE halo. lol i've rambled a bit. Thanks for the feedback, and I hope you enjoy this map
It looks pretty interesting. I've seen you post here before, but I never really noticed your gamertag until now. It looks like I already have you on my friends list. Maybe we could get some customs on this sometime, if you can get the people together.
I think this is a very nice map aesthetically. I am interested in playing on it some time this week when I get some friends online. But so that the mods don't think I am spamming your thread... I recommend that you remove all your Anti Respawn Zones and you switch the neutral Respawn Zone over the top of the map to SLAYER rather than FFA. If you make these changes, the only change you will see in game play is the introduction of dynamic spawning during team slayer games.
God no. If a team makes an effective push, they shouldn't have to go all the way back to their base just to get a few more kills. If a team is outsmarted, they don't deserve the advantage of stealing a base, especially one that isn't theirs. Static spawns are far superior, because they follow a more logical spawn system. Anyone who suggests using dynamic spawns in a team game really doesn't understand enough about spawns.
Yeah, the lights look nice but I checked it out without them and it wouldn't be so bad, you did a great job pulling colors into the map even without lights with the tower_talls. I liked the ghosts being cramped, they were difficult to use but still powerful, even dangerous to kill because of the explosion. They are FUN on this map. I think the lifts could still work if they were more visible, just be careful if you use the railing pieces, they cause framerate lag. Still love this, I threw in a feature nomination yesterday. I will see if I still have the vid, though I often have game lag so it might be a bad vid.
I have to agree with 4shot on this one. Teams have plenty of tools at there disposal to help break a spawn lock. There's a ghost, spiker, and shotty (not to mention two dmr's for AR slayer games) that spawn right in your base. Dynamic spawns arn't necessary. As always, thank you for the suggestion though mrgreen. Yeah, I never felt that the lights were needed as I play mostly in splitscreen anyway. I'm glad you feel this map is feature worthy. As i've said multiple times, I bled for this map lol it would be nice to see it go places
I had a lot of fun playing neutral bomb on this map with you guys last night. The game type wasn't as strong as 2 flag, but it played extremely well. The action never stopped and it took place on every inch of the map. Congratulations on making a camp free map. The only possible criticism I could give you is that the spawn times on the ghost and shotgun seemed a little low. Otherwise it was a fantastic objective map. I'm excited to play it again.
We played some good games on both Dead Streets and my new map, but that game was definitely the highlight of the evening. Sitting on the bomb with the ghost at the end was hilarious. So much debris... lol As for the weapon timers and such, pretty much everyone in the lobby agreed with what you said here. I've made some tweaks, and will host some more games tonight to see if everything works as it should.