Guide: Wall Collesium Flooring

Little confusing. Do you rotate with the lock off or do you just move them?

 

You just insulted 21 MILLION PEOPLE! :O

Jokes. I understand now and yes that seems helpful.

 

this is brilliant, i was actually just wondering on how to fix my flooring before i erased it but i guess its too late now.

nice find tho

 

The trick to getting the coliseum walls to lay flat is to not try to make them flat.

 

I find the entire post confusing and poorly written, and not just because I'm Australian lol - I want to use this technique for my map asap. Seriously though, I hope it really works and good find, but I think you need to edit more lol. When you are describing doing something in a 3d space you should be clear and direct in your choice of words, in order to be easily understood, and that is not necessarily dumbing down.

 

This is 100% right and I'm glad I got him to bring this to light for everyone's knowledge. It saved my map, which I just finished and need to figure out how to submit it to MLG and Forgehub. Its pretty sick and I spent 2 months on the damn thing

 

I don't completely understand this not because im Australian but because I've never had problems with my colusium wall floors shifting.

 

This is helpful, maybe to others but it doesn't help me. My whole coliseum wall flips vertically and so I must flip it back, but anytime I save and come back it shifts a small amount at an angle, so when I proceed to fix it, it then flips. I need to figure out how to stop this and your step-by-step instructions truly don't help at all.

P.S. I am not Australian (And I know they joke isn't directed towards all of them)

 

Use 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees and you won't see things flipping out so much when you grab them.

And you can't prevent these objects from rotating a little bit. Can not. Impossible. No can do. Don't even try. Ain't going to happen. The game won't save objects at a perfect 90 degrees. It's because of the way Bungie saves object rotation data in this game to try and keep file sizes and load times down.

A simpler version of this guide:
Place the object where you want it.
Save and quit.
Go back into forge, the object will have rotated.
With rotation snap turned off (so it stays rotated and won't rotate again), move the object and the objects around it in order to minimize bumpiness.

 

Ladnill,

I think what you are saying is that you need to take it off its pure 90 degree angle by a slight amount, without using the coordinate lock system. This is what I do now for getting some blocks not to z-fight. There are ways to make blocks move ever so slightly.

I will try this approach later this week and see if I can make it work with the intended results. Even if the final result is not exactly perfect to the eye, if it is much better, then it would be a good approach to use.

I do agree that taking it off angle a slight bit could be much better aesthetically than seeing the small, yet significant shift of the block. But I had always assumed that the shift would occur regardless of how the angle was achieve.

I will let you know what I found. Let me know if I misunderstood you all...

 

I don't think you did... Basically that was just instructions for working with the rotation. It does nothing to actually reduce or prevent the rotation.

 

Then what is the point of the post? I thought it was to explain how to reduce or eliminate the rotation that Reach induces into the wall when you open the map back up?


OR

Are you saying that if the Reach engine puts a 1 degree rotation in it, we can compensate by putting a -1 degree rotation in ourselves, then the wall will be the way we intended?

 

No, you just let it do the rotation, then move it up/down and move all of the other things that are supposed to line up with it up/down so that it's as close to smooth as you can get it.

People tend to think of the rotation as a physics problem as if it were operating in hthe real world. It's not. The object isn't "moving" at all really. What it's doing is taking the perfectly flat 90 degrees you want it to be and instead saving the object at the nearest spot that it knows how to save to. Then once it's at a spot that it knows how to save to, it won't move again because it's already in an understandable position.

Basically the designers in order to keep file sizes and load times down only assign a limited number of digits to each field of data. The size of the field puts a cap on the number of possible entries there. Whatever you try to put in there, the engine will convert to the nearest possible entry, and it will save at that slot. For example, 4 binary digits, 1111, equals 15 in our normal numbering system. If Bungie had assigned 4 bits to the "rotation" field, the engine would divide the full range of possible rotations into 15 "slots" and wherever you try to save to it would just go to the nearest slot. Obviously they've assigned a lot more than 15 slots, but whatever number they used it came out that none of the slots falls on a perfect 90 degrees so you will always end up with your objects rotating when you save objects at 90 degrees.

 

And an engineer from Bungie told you this is how it works internally? If that is so, then why can I save to precise locations?

I was able to get three coliseum walls to lay flat perfectly by NOT using the coordinate system, but using the old Halo 3 method of just eye balling it. If you want to look at the results, it is on my file share, ROTATIONTEST. Whatever error there is remains, but it is very small compared to the standard rotation error induced by the coordinate system.

Now I have only reloaded a couple time in forge and a couple times in customs, but it seems to hold well.

 

That was Halo 3, but we can infer that Reach functions the same. Their updates with the new forge have made it quantize to a more accurate number, but as we've all seen with walls and braces, it still exists.

I'm checking out your file share map now. I'll be shocked if it really did work. If that is the case, all I can guess is that somehow going into custom games rather than forge allows for more precision. I'm not a programmer, so I don't see how or why that would be the case, but I'm open to the possibility. I notice your test is on Tempest, so it's also possible that the "up vector" mentioned in that Bungie update I quoted is reoriented on Tempest along with the other various improvements they made, similar to how the double walls on Foundry could be laid flat but on Sandbox they could not in Halo 3.

Edit: the walls in your test aren't flat. They're simply aligned with each other so that there's no bump.

 

1) I thought that getting rid of the bumps was the point.

2) But more importantly, if they are the same elevation (Z axis) and their edges meet cleanly, then how can they not be flat? And how can you detect that they are not flat?

Thanks for sharing that article. It was very clear what is happening and how to work around it. I will try doing the alternating method they show and see how good that turns out.


Update: I sort of remember having to adjust the z-axis a slight bit, so I think you are right.

 

Getting rid of the bump is definitely the point. It's just that getting rid of the bump does not necessarily require making the walls perfectly flat. That's what I'm trying to communicate here.