Its just hard to really tell about a map like this from pictures. Every remake of Turf always shows the same shots, and yours look like every other good one I've seen. Now that I've been through the map I can say that it is at the least serviceable and fun to play on, and at the most pretty good. There were a few structural things I had issue with... room at the end of the street (the one where the doors used to be) felt too small, and some of the hallways/alleys felt too big. But like I said, its faithful enough to the original that playing on it is gonna be satisfying. And the differences will probably just end up making it a different feel rather than a bad one- (like playing the the halo 3 version of lockout. I found it fun because of the differences).
Wow, this is a great remake, Turf is one of my top 3 halo maps of all time and this remake will be taking the place of my current one. Thanks!
Well I think you might be confused in terms of scale because the other Turf remakes out there, Turf Lagoon, and Gamefreaks Turf were both made last year, so they were scaled to Reach. Everything is smaller on those maps so naturally mine will seem larger, and hence inaccurate. I promise I have done many things to ensure that Outskirts is an incredibly accurate Turf experience. I recommend going back to Halo 2 and seeing the actual map, I would wager its bigger than you might remember. Your very welcome and Im glad you enjoy the map, be sure to let me know if anything ever pops up that you dont care for.
Never played Halo 2 but it looks to me that the remakeis very accurate and i will DL and give further feedback
I absolutely did go back when I downloaded Turf originally to compare it to Halo 2, which I fortunately still own. I end up playing H2 all the time with my kids because they love the maps. I'm very familiar with the original turf, so when I say that some of your hallways feel too large, its based off of that familiarity. Some of your hallways were spot on however... I think its just a matter of what pieces you've used. Scale for such an organic map is never going to be perfect, and you're working within very tight limits. I'd love to be more specific about which ones were off and where I had issue with specific architecture, but my 360 literally stopped working this morning. It was fine yesterday... now it won't read a disc... go figure.
Well if you have the ability to reference specifics I will be more than willing to take your feedback under consideration if anything is poorly scaled.
I'll see if I can get my box to work tonight, if not, it will be at least a week before I can get it looked at. [br][/br]Edited by merge: So my box started working. I removed the hard drive and it started working once I put it back in. And I ran through turf again on H2 and used the wart hog as a basis for sizing. And I realized why some of your halls felt wrong. It's not the halls, it was the ramps... and the fact that reach plays so slowly. I went back into a custom game with classic speeds and jump heights and found your map is ridiculously accurate with the exception of the ramps. In the orginal you can get a warthog to turn around on the ramps- the ramps being just as wide as a hog is long. Your ramps aren't as wide which made the halls feel wider in relation. Classics speeds also helped with the overall feel of the map. I have to say that I didn't test the ramp behind the medic bunker in the original or yours. So that still remains an unknown. I also wanted to say that some of the architecture looks terrible. Not because you did anything wrong, but the gray of forgeworld is so bland. Maybe you can simplify some of it and vary the textures showing to make the aesthetics more appealing (this really only applies to the store fronts on the street. You have the shape right, but they look silly without the actual texture of a storefront). Maybe some lights to break up the grey? I also have issue with using Large Braces as flooring. Your spartan bumps up every time you cross one- its a function of the piece itself not your construction. I didn't do an extensive catalogue of your map to see what pieces could be changed out to make room in the budget for different flooring. One last nitpick. I think the portion of wall jutting out with the medpack on it in the room at the end of the street is jutting out a bit too far, making it feel a bit more cramped that the original. I would also prefer crates instead of forge blocks where crates were in the original. But all in all... this is the most accurate remake of turf I've seen yet.
I think that for that door, you should make it out of capture plates. Projectiles cannot go through, but players and manned vehicles can. Those plates can be pretty useful, and it would look better than a shield door
[First reaction] I think your underestimating how incredibly ugly that would look [Serious answer] You cant drive vehicles through capture plates, and I know they are useful I have used them in my other maps. In this scenario however, everyone is just gunna have to deal with the shield door. If anyone would like to change it themselves go ahead, but I will not be making any alterations to the door. Well there isnt a whole lot I can do in terms of it being gray. Its FW, its gunna look gray and shitty. The store fronts are not easy to create in terms of geometry, so Im not sure if I can/would change that. Ive had lights in the map before, but I dont think the store fronts would be a good spot for them if they were put back in anyways. As for the large braces, sure I do catch a slight bump if I walk across them horizontally, but even so would you rather me just use wall coliseums and further ugly the map up? It doesnt seem to be that big of a deal, if it caused seriously problems during playtesting I would compromise. As for the medpack wall in the garage, Im not sure what you mean at all. Its not even sticking out 1/2 a coordinate, in terms of forge pieces it doesnt get much thinner than that. If you can do it better feel free to do so, I dont see how that cramps up the garage at all though. In reference to the crates, your forgetting we only get 10 crates. Turf has like 30 crates on, I did what I could. Any crates that needed to be movable I used crates, but since the crates in the garage are static anyways it seemed like a fair compromise. The ramps are not wide enough, they are .17 coordinates wide, it should be .2 wide. So your right on that one. Im perfectly fine with someone bringing up issues they have with the map, negative feedback is better than positive feedback to me. That said, now that you've said all that, just play the map man, turn off your brain and just have fun. I appreciate your critiques, so thank you. Creators notes: noticed a tiny spot of z-fighting under a crate, will update map tonight, sorry for the 237 of ya that already dl'd
Lights a the bases might be a big help for breaking up the gray. I've been playing with your map a bit. Specifically I used a different piece for the back most part of the storefonts (I think it was a landing pad. The blue reflective part was what I wanted). It looks a bit better. But overall I think lights is the only thing that can really fix it. If you had more free budget I'd say use a juicy+X filter to differentiate the pieces a bit. Yeah, I don't think there's much you can do without reworking everything to free up some 5x5's or something. It was just Jarring... Perhaps work the directions of some of them so that you're walking along their lengths rather than perpendicular? In the original the wall with the medpack lined up rather nicely with the edge of the doors frame. I nudged it in a bit by leftclicking (not sure if you nudge with the left stick though. I'm a south paw. Dunno if that changes in forge). Didn't forget. I reworked the crate in the central intersection and the crates down by the medical bunker into static for pieces. I thought that having crates where the hog is most likely to run into them seemed more important. So I have crates in the door room and in front of the scarab base. Its been a doozy getting them wider without throwing off all the rest of the geometry. But turns out that the large brace is exactly how wide you need to get a hog to turn around. Not sure how that translates to coordinate values. Looking forward to it!!!
Vehicles can drive through those capture plates (at least manned ones). Look in the tips and tricks section. About the ugliness: shield door looks ugly and out of place. Also, functionallity>looks.
My apologies, manned vehicles can indeed pass through them. Im sorry for throwing your comments away so quickly. I have experience with driving vehicles through plates I guess I just spaced on that one. Ive been distracted by pajama dads comments and wasnt focusing on yours enough. Your right, however I don't really want to do that Filters, Lights and Glass will cause framerate issues, the map is already on the fence with screen lag, in split screen it is undeniable. There arent many exotic things I can do at this point without running into the ever looming screen lag problems. I could look into rearranging the braces if it is to noticeable. If you nudged that forward, I guarantee the top portion stuck out through the 4x4 shorts above it. Crates that need to be dynamic are in the alleyways and in front of scarab. Im not sure what the "central intersection" is, but that sounds like a place where you would need a crate to move. I designed the map with the knowledge of how wide I wanted those ramps to be, I didn't intend for you to pull a 3 point turn in the Hog on them so you cant. I could come up with new calculations and reforge the map with inserting 2 coordinate wide ramps, but that seems unnecessary, or at the least unproven yet. If it becomes a problem I will do so. Coordinate values are simple, Large Braces are 2 coordinates wide uninterrupted. (which reduced, equals twenty ".1" moves. Currently the braces are only seventeen ".1" moves visible.) For reference, a warthog is 2x1. Therefore, a Large Brace uninterrupted would be the length of a warthog
I've been playing with it. If I can find a solution I'll let you know and throw it into my file share. I wouldn't bother. I ran around some today and so long as you're running and gunning, it isn't an issue. It did, and I adjusted it down. Yeah, the locations are a bit iffy. Its the part in front of the scarab base where the two central ramps lead up and meet. I believe you had a crate there (maybe my memory is off now that I've tweaked your awesome map) that isn't really in the path should the hog move in there. My concern is ease of play. In the orginal it wasn't too tough to run the hog through the map on objective gametypes. With the ramps so narrow I foresee alot of 'diagonal binding' if the hog isn't straight. I figured as much.
The Hog told me to tell you, "The Hog will go where ever The Hog damn well pleases to go" ;p The Hog in Reach being so vulnerable to pretty much everything you might be right, but the other side of the same coin is, because its so vulnerable to pretty much everything, its going to get blown up quickly and often anyways. I will let you know, serious playtests are on the horizon, and possibly different variants. (i.e. personal use version that looks pretty, hard tested version that plays perfectly) P.S. Im working on editing my main variant, but for testing purposes I have created a beta version of the map with slight differing in piece selection and most notably 2 coordinate wide ramps.This isnt a full release but I figured I would throw one out there just for you Pdad, Im tinkering with it as I type but figured I would get your feedback. Please have a look Honestly the 2-wide ramps just dont seem to be enough of a benefit for me to rework the map, so I more than likely will not publish a version with them. P.S.S Done significant work on main variant, reworked alot of the map to be more efficient/better looking. Will likely be updating map by weeks end, undecided if there will be a "Large Brace Roads" and/or "Wall Coliseum Roads" versions. Performance in upcoming tests will determine that for me.
I know. I wish they'd given us way to adjust the durability of the vehicles. Will do. I'm uploading my tweaks on your map as well. I decided to see what I could do with using coliseum walls as floors and then use the large braces as sidewalks. Also managed to get lights and filters with no lag when I play alone or split screen with my boys. Gametypes and such aren't up yet. I decided to delete everything that wasn't geometry (which was silly. I forgot to put a spawn point once and when I reloaded it I realized you'd built it outside of the invisible barrier. Had to daisy chain teleporters to get back in). So those are gonna be different than you might have had them. I'm not going for serious competition when I do objectives, just fun times with my kids, so take those with a grain of salt. I look forward to it.
Oh I loved Turf. I recognised it easily, great job! Takes me back to me and my brothers 3vs3 in the same room lan games... PLEASE say you included the jumps?
If you have your settings set to 120% move and jump then this remake plays and feels as close to the original as I would expect a remake to play. If you're playing with standard reach speeds and jumps heights its gonna feel off, and the jumps aren't going to work.