There are many, many elements to map making that are really never discussed here at FH. Level design is one of the most important aspects of creating a map, and I feel the need for it to be discussed. We'll start with a few simple questions: What are 3 of your favorite maps? What do you like about them? What don't you like about them? Once we learn what parts of certain maps we enjoy and don't enjoy, we can then implement those ideas into the maps we create. Lets hear what the community has to say.
Rusty made the best guide. I recommend giving that a thorough read. Here are some points from the top of my head. - Interesting design - Original geometry - Balanced, and well tested weapons, geometry and spawns
I started a thread all about this... Change this to game play discussion http://www.forgehub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10023 - ma guide
I enjoy maps that look good and force gameplay into the pretty part of the map. Things like balance and flow are unnecessary when the map looks good and has plenty of weapons thrown in.
I'll start by answering the questions in this thread. 1.My favorite three maps in the halo game now are: -Guardian for slayer and team slayer. -Ghost town on team king of the hill -Isolation on team slayer or team king 2.What I like about them. -Guardian has an amazing, intertwined flow. There are multiple routes to almost every location and there are multiple levels on each platform. Each platform connects to the next (save for the blue and green platforms) and the weapon placement lends itself really well to the level. It's not meant to be an "objective" map even though king of the hill and oddball work really well. It is a level to keep you moving, there is always somewhere to go. It is balanced in such a way that it is beneficial to camp the snipe spawn... it's balanced in an even better way such that there are ways to break up a snipe tower camping session. There are trick jumps if you choose to attempt them. -Ghost town doesn't have an extremely complex layout, but it still is interesting. There is lots of cover and there really isn't a "set" way to play it. The weapon placement isn't overpowered, it's very balanced, and even though it is set up to be an objective-based map wherein there is an attacking/defending base setup, team king lends itself really well because there are many ways to "hold" each of the hill points. It's like having a moveable base and, really, all four corners and the middle tower could be used as a base. If they didn't have the current base setup, I could imagine any opposite two corners as the bases. There is no set way in which this level should be played, so it's really open to many different styles of play. -Isolation has a nice uphill play to the whole level. It's has a king of the hill feel to it even when you're playing slayer on it. The hill is place to control. However, even though it is set up in this fasion, it's like a whole other level underneath the hill. There are two baes and and whereas they are so close to eachother, they're so far away. This level is not designed to be wholly beneficial to the ghost, so the ghost doesn't seem overpowered at all. There aren't any gimmicks, this map is one that supports good teamwork. 3.What I don't like about them. -Guardian... perfect level... It was a definite improvement on lockout and I can't imagine it improving. -Ghost town in this level, the rockets and overshield seem way too close, especially since they have the same spawn time, I'd like to see the spawn times varied by 30 seconds or so. I also think the snipe spawn time is too long, half a minute shorter would do well. -Isolation.. the bases seem rather useless in this level. I'd like to see a bit more of a reward for going into the bases in non-objective games. An overshield or invisibility wouldn't ruin the balance of the level, I think... and it would give more of a reason to go into the bases. Now, what I think makes a good map in general: It's all about risk versus reward. During gameplay, whether it is conscious or not, a player is always weighing the benefits of an action versus the risk to gain said benefits. Now the rewards, contrary to popular belief, aren't just power weapons. Quick access, cover, high ground, objective items, good angles and weapons are the main benefits. Risks can include, lack of cover, inaccessibility, and dead ends. Now, sometimes the risks and rewards aren't always so clear. Also, the risk isn't always as simple as lack of cover. One great example of a risk versus reward is the hill on isolation. The whole level (for the most part) is testimony to a good risk verus reward outlook on level design. Howso? The hill at the top, the risk is that you are extremely open and you are a long way from the sniper (meaning, it's easier to be killed by said sniper), the reward, however, is two battle rifles and an almost complete line of site across the whole top of the level. The ghost area, the risk? A pretty open area and lots of traffic towards the ghost at the beginning, not to mention that rocket launcher that is almost a direct shot in front of it. The reward: A freakin' ghost. The rocket launcher, one of the most openly-placed weapons on this map. The risk: a ghost right in front of you, either side, base windows that have a clear view (and spike grenades) of the rocket launcher, and a possible overhead attack or grenade spam. The reward? A rocket launcher. The whole design of the level supports big risk versus a big reward. That is what spurs good gameplay, giving the player many choices and seeing how the player reacts to these choices. That is what gameplay is, there are the base rules set up, but the level, giving the player choices, letting them learn from the consequences of said choices, that's what gameplay is. Sure, all levels have this logic, even levels like, well, (since mallet said it was okay) gulf chronicle have these choices. However, some of the risks (like the needless death pit) don't offer rewards that are good enough and over reward the player for doing very little (the sniper/overshield/custom powerup/ shotgun all within 20 feet of eachother). That's what makes a level unbalanced, the lack of an equal risk versus reward system. Risk versus reward is what activates the space. If you take a level, like bart's manor. Sure, the manor itself is developed pretty well, but outside the manor, everything is way too open, way too plain offering high risk and no reward, the whole point of the map is to try to get "to the pretty part," which makes the gameplay stale. If you have parts of your map that are extremely open with nothing to spur gameplay, nothing is going to happen on that part of the map, that, in turn, is going to make that whole part of your map dead. Like reflex's bases. There is nothing there to spur gameplay, so the only thing those two "bases" offer gameplay is a place to spawn... That is what all of map creating boils down to, all the technical points like: vertical looping, object placement, etc, only extend gameplay by the risks and rewards they have/give. EDIT: Wow, mallet, I can't tell if that was sarcastic. EDIT #2: added basically my whole post... I reserve the right to edit further.
I think that is completely wrong no offense. That creates hotspots in the map and potentially makes the rest of the map useless and unimportant. I really hope that was a joke btw... If not don't be offended
i think the map geometry combined with the gameplay and the originalist of the objects,buildings,etc.It then depends on the spawn placement and the weapons location and the quanity
Sarcasm is much more fun when nobody can tell if you're serious I find. Haruki feel free to use my maps as examples. They are popular, several are featured and most have pretty terrible gameplay but good aestetics. I would argue however that my maps are meant for casual gamers. They are not built for flawless gameplay and balance but for an interesting and different experience. In my biased opinion maps like Empire deserve being featured for these qualities. I do pay attention to balancing my maps but it certainly isn't the top priority when I make them, the fun of map making for me is being creative and making something unique. I think originality and creativity should be rewarded more than gameplay personally. Some of the maps in the featured section may have the odd flaw but I would much rather play them rather than the frankly boring and repetitive MLG maps I see floating around the web. An ideal map would have excellent gameplay and interesting geometry but it is not an easy thing to achieve. I now declare this subject Mal-Owned.
1. Personally my 3 favorite maps over the life of Halo are Lockout, Ghost Town, and Turf. 2. I love the movement in all 3 of these maps. There are multiple routes to each destination on the map, so there is always continual movement. Action seemed to be everywhere in the map, so no matter where you spawned there was something to kill. 3. I never really found objective matches to be fun on these 3 maps. I think the positive reasons above become negative when objective matches are introduced into the mix. So the maps I enjoy the most are built more for slayer.
like mallet said, the best maps combine innovative and well executed aesthetics/architecture and great gameplay
I completely agree, i like maps based on looking good and maps that you can tell the person spent alot of time making. Balance.. ehh not really the funnest part.
I too enjoy maps that are balanced and look good like @differantlevel wile being MLG if is very fun and well made and in humble opinion very beautiful. of course I tend to enjoy maps that are balanced and look the same through out.
Things I've learned: 1. Narrow passages are only ok if there's an alternative, more open route. 2. Switches are cool, but people tend to sacrifice playability, fun, and intuitivity to implement them. A map that has a gem but doesn't succumb it a gem. 3. Cool gimmicks > solid playability as far as Bng.net DL's go. 4. Mix it up. Maps need multiple levels, wide and narrow spaces, interesting weapon placement, spice, basically. 5. Any map that allows the player to form a personalized relationship with it is a winner. "I prefer taking the sniper rifle into the trees." "I always avoid the center passageway."
What are 3 of your favorite maps? Valhalla, The pit, and probably... Empire. What do you like about them? Empire is beautiful, tight, and great fun with a small party, The pit is just well balanced with good everything imo, lots of power weapons but you can counter them all... There's enough open space that shotty doesn't own and enough cover that sniper doesn't either for example. Valhalla is just beautiful, lots of rocks n stuff, things to hide behind cars to splatter with... love it. What don't you like about them? Empire is a bit too small and sparse amounts of cover and too many propane tanks. Valhalla... Getting sniped when I go through the man cannon... The pit... Sword room camping.
A mix of fighting styles(eg long and short lines), don't put the sniper at the highes position or the shotty at the most tightly packed.
What can determine the playablity is definately shotty placement, because in most matches that is the central focus point, disagree? Snowbound. My favourite maps over the halo series are Last Resort(Not Zanzibar), Foundation, Ghost Town and Tombstone. Personally my I prefer aysemmetric maps, they provide a different experience for each team. As said they must be original. The shotty and sniper shouldn't spawn in their best vantage point. A forged map should provide the same experience as a default map. And some people struggle to successfully pull that off. Aesthetics is a big part, a map must not only play good, it must look good. If it was intended to looks sloppy specify, dont say it didnt need to be interlocked. Every good forged map should be interlocked to an extreme level. I dont car what you think. It helps with gameplay, not to have nades getting stuck and having to jump when its supposed to be flat surface. A good forged map should play differently than the next and should provide an excellent Halo experience that rivals gameplay on the default maps.
Right now my favorite map is Avalanche. When I play that map I feel that every threat to my team has a counter. Being able to recognize the current largest threat, and then stopping it before the other team is able to gain momentum is great. You know, like if a Hornet is hovering around my base, I transport to the rocket launcher cliff and bust out the nearby turret. Or if a large group is rushing my base on foot, I jump into the Wraith. Or if the other team has a Wraith in my base, I need to find a Hornet or Ghost as quickly as possible. That's the kind of stuff I like, games that aren't just tests of your aim and reflexes (not that I don't enjoy those games too). I don't want to rush in at the other guy with the same weapon he has, hoping I happen to be better with it then he is. I want to be able to observe what's going on in the game, analyze what weapon or strategy will stop my opponent's from dominating, and then be either rewarded or penalized depending on how well I was able to examine the situation. What I don't like about Avalanche is the Laser. A player shouldn't be punished for using a vehicle on a map specifically designed for vehicle combat. And it makes people rush on foot or on Mongooses towards the laser, so immediately your team is split up, making it incredibly difficult to move together as group. For a good map, at least aesthetically speaking, I think that you need to provide an image that has a familiar, almost iconic look to it, but isn’t just a straight up copy of something else. Don’t make a Star Wars vehicle, that’s too expected. And don’t make a ship that’s completely of your own design, people looking at it don’t know what to think. And I really need to emphasize that point, when someone looks at your creation they need to immediately associate it with something else, otherwise it’ll mean just about as much to them as a pile of boxes. You need an image that the viewers will immediately recognize, yet still maintains a unique look.
I cannot believe it. I posted a few paragraphs but my computer messed up, oh my god how ridiculous! basically what i said is that for forge maps i like interactivity and creativity, for bungie maps i like scenery, places to explore, last resort favorite halo 3 map, lockout favorite halo 2 and obviously blood gulch for halo. i really hope that doesn't happen again.