What would be a good vehicle set for the map I'm making?

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by Ice Pinata, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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    Well I'm making a Big Team Battle map that could be considered a spiritual successor to Sidewinder and Avalanche. It has the U shape and two bases.

    I'm wondering what the vehicle set for it should be. The map is about the size that Avalanche was, but a little bigger due to the scale of Reach's mm combat.

    I was thinking this for a set of vehicles:

    4x Mongooses
    2x Ghosts
    2x Warthog - default
    2x Warthog - Gauss
    2x Wraith

    I'm wondering if this would be overkill or not. Please post your suggestions for the vehicle set.
     
  2. cory21

    cory21 Ancient
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    I would say make the Gauss Hog into a Rocket Hog and remove the Wraith completely. You'd have to show pictures though...
     
  3. artifact123

    artifact123 Forerunner
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    Also add a Falcon per base. But if you do you must also put Splasers or/and tons of Plasma Pistols to counter the airrage(Seriously, Falcons with 2 Gunners are unstoppable).
     
  4. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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    A Falcon would be hard to implement considering the map isn't massive, like say the size of Containment from Halo 2.

    I was going to add banshees when I was first drawing out the map, but I think they would be overpowering to infantry. Plus the back side of the bases are rock walls, and with aerial vehicles you would be able to get behind them, and I just don't like the thought of that, so I'd like to keep it grounded.


    @cory21

    I was thinking about not adding the Wraiths due to my experiences on Hemorrhage in BTB matchmaking.

    If I end up removing the Wraiths, then I think I should leave the Gauss Hogs so there is some kind of powerful vehicle. Perhaps I should also add another default warthog per base or a revenant?
     
  5. Marinealver

    Marinealver Forerunner

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    There is a map somebody already made that acts like avalance. Confinment you can find here

    As for vehicle sets the big thing to think about is ballance.

    Tanks and Aircraft are some of the most powerful vehicles and to my dismay (because I like them) and everyone elses oponion overpowered. So with those in mind you have to place some map feature or counter weapon/vehicle to ballance them out.

    Scorpian tanks because of their main cannons low trajectory arc work well in wide open places while wraiths with their lobbing shots work great in broken ground and cover. So you would do the exact oppisite, place wraiths in open ground and put scorpians in narrow corridors.

    The falcon makes a nice defensive gunship platform because of its hovvering ability and 2 machine guns can just mow over any infantry attack, but the banshee with it's small profile and speed plus the Anti-vehicle firepower of the FRG makes it a great offensive flyer. So do the oppisite. Also if you are using vehicles lower the flight ceeling or put some obstruction they have to fly under to make them more vunerible.

    Now with the lighter vehicles such as cavalry and scout instead of putting them in their weakness where they have an disadvantage, put them where they are the strongest.

    Rocket warthogs are amazing against aircraft but suprisingly not too effective against tanks such as wraiths and scorpians. It takes a few full salvos to take one down assuming you hit with each rocket. However Guasshogs and their powerful guasscannon can take one down in a couple of shots or one well placed shot in the tail weakspot. Keep in mind that it is easier for the tanks to oneshot a warthog than the guasshog to one shot a tank. The revenant will have no place in a map full of tanks but in a map of warthogs the revenant will rule supreme with the concussion blasts.

    Mongooses are great with objective matches but in slayer unless you have a passenger with a powerful weapon ithe unarmed vehicle isn't much useful. Even then it becomes a verry tempting doubile kill target. The ghost is great in slayer matches but in objectives it is either an escort or defender.

    Another thing in mind light covenant vehicles with their boost work good in open maps while human vehicles with the e brake can make tighter turns in the obstructed narrow maps.

    Last note is when considering vehicles what doe the poor footsloger have against one besides saying last prayers for a quick and painless respawn. The heavy weapons because of their powerful anti infantry applications are kept rare and far and few between. Lasers are good against anything with the exception of small fast vehicles such as ghosts. The plasma launcher with the lock on makes it a great Anti air weapon, rockets are also a good multipurpose weapon with AA lock and 2 tank smashing rounds. The FRG is decient against vehicles but not as good against tanks. It is better against the small vehicles. The sniper can be a good anti banshee or tank driver/gunner killer weapon. Concussion rifle is only good against light vehicles and that is for flipping them same with plasma grenades. Grenade launcher plasma pistol is good for disabling vehicles but you will still have to run and board it. Also don't forget to put cover and small hiding spots for infantry to launch an ambush and boarding traps for vehicles.
     
  6. Erupt

    Erupt Forerunner
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    I'd say:

    and x2 Falcon

    But make sure you make teleporters and mancannons for travel on foot for people who hate vehicles (me) and make sure to put weapons to balance out footbattles with vehicle battles. Plasma pistols, rockets, and snipers are all good weapons to keep people on foot from feeling too helpless.
     
    #6 Erupt, Mar 6, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  7. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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    Yeah I have mancannons on my concept drawing. I'll add teleporters if needed.

    I have a ton of anti vehicle weapons planned.

    With 2x Rockets, 2x snipers, 2x Grenade Launcher, 1x concussion rifle, and 2x plasma pistols. All with appropriate spawn times.

    What's the reason for taking out the Gauss Hogs though?
     
  8. thesilencebroken

    thesilencebroken Jill Sandwich
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    to be really honest, I think you got the vehicle set right on your own. The only things I'm worried about are the two gauss hogs. They could play REALLY fun, or really irritating. I'm personally not a fan of Rocket hogs. I think they are too chaotic and unpredictable.

    The more classic vehicle set is what I'd like to see. The new vehicles aren't classics to me.
     
  9. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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    Well I've considered what everyone has said and I'm going to replace the Gauss Hogs with Rocket ones. The map has pretty long sight lines so the Gauss cannon could become overpowering with its pin point accuracy and high damage. A rocket turret can be very powerful too, only it's harder to use.

    With the addition of the Rocket hogs I will add Falcons. I think the map is big enough and they could very well be a really fun addition to gameplay.

    The wraiths I will omit due to the fact that people don't like getting spawn killed every time they reappear on the map.

    I will submit the map to the Tester's Guild once ready to make sure though.
     
  10. Erupt

    Erupt Forerunner
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    Idk about x2 rockets, that may be overkill all in it's own. And if you do drop 1 rocket, which I'd recommend, I'd make a neutral rocket and give both teams a concussion rifle, rather than only having 1 concussion rifle. Basically you'd just swapping the roles of the rockets and concussion rifle.

    This:

    Gauss's are hard to balance and keep from being irritating. Also, tsb here is Mr. BTB Feature Man now, so I'd listen to him ;)
     
    #10 Erupt, Mar 6, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  11. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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  12. seredhras

    seredhras Forerunner

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    tempest has two rockets
    and I am going to say that gauss hogs are insane, they absolutely destroy
    but wraiths are fine, I think that there won't be a spawn killing problem with the wraiths unless they respawn fast
    your other alternative is having 2 spawn areas far apart since the wraith is (for me) inaccurate at long range
    if you put some form of structure to spawn inside with the sniper spawn than the wraith would be less effective as well, especially if there is a high roof or buttress of sorts or you could spawn the rockets in the base and then there would not be as high a degree of spawn killing

    shoot, why am I giving you all my ideas? jk, use them if they work

    edit: falcons could be effective against a wraith because the wraith fairs poorly imo against aircraft, but they gauss hogs (and scorpions) are super easy to kill aircraft with due to their extremely accurate and powerful shots
     
    #12 seredhras, Mar 6, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  13. Hogframe

    Hogframe Ancient
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    This, times eleven.

    Gauss Hogs are basically Rockets that travel at light speed, do more damage, fire faster, never have to reload, and give you cover. Oh, and infinite ammo. And they move fast. Just don't put them on any map that hasn't been designed from the very beginning to compensate for their power.


    As for the Wraiths and Rockets, it all depends on the design of your map. You say it was designed much like Avalanche, so I'll use Avalanche for the main part of my argument.

    The Wraiths: First things first, put a higher-up exit from the main "spawn base." Wraiths are completely(-ish) useless against elevated infantry. For someone to actively camp your spawning base with a Wraith, he'd have to master the art of swinging his reticle to the perfect elevation to get his ball-o'-death up to your base's higher exit (The Wraith has a surprisingly small morter. It's good at defending against infantry, but bad at assaulting them).

    The Rockets: If you want a central Rocket Launcher with the ability to defend against many vehicles the ability to transfer hands many times, give it two extra clips. This way, it'll give infantry a reason to move forward and capture that power weapon. If you decide to make the central Rocket have fewer clips, you should rest it in a close-range area that is very easy to break into, preferably in between the two bases. Think of the cave area in Avalanche. It's a rather tight fit inside, but the doorways are all large enough to prevent Rocket-camping (If Rockets were placed there, it would lead to intense firefights that would give the winners a powerful anti-vehicle weapon).

    Now, I'll just assume from your map post that you'd rather have two Rockets (one for each base). If that's the case, then I'd recomend you think out how you want the Rockets to act. If you want their intention to be left up entirely to the user, then give them an extra clip and a relatively short respawn time (Relatively short for a Rocket, that is. Don't go "30sec" on me). If, on the other hand, you want them to remain entirely anti-vehicle, you should give them one extra clip with a respawn time that happens to coincide with the respawn times of most of the vehicles.

    Edit: The Plasma Launcher: Here's a nice alternative to the Rockets. If you want your "Rockets" to remain almost entirely anti-vehicle with some use as an anti-infantry base defender, you should just replace them with Plasma Launchers. A PL has an excellent lock-on feature that works wonders in the hands of a skilled user, but can still be avoided by infantry and light vehicles. It's also too weak alone to massacre lines of infantry, so there's no real need to worry about "Plasma Launcher camping."

    Well, I wish you luck with the map regardless of what you ultimately decide on.

    Cheers,
    Hari.
     
    #13 Hogframe, Mar 7, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2011
  14. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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    Wow that was a really helpful post!

    I think I'll leave the wraiths because ultimately they help put some variety in gameplay with the "oh ****" feeling that players get when one arrives at their base, even if it doesn't do that much damage.

    As for the Gauss Hog, I've decided to change them to Rocket Hogs, since I am adding Falcons, and they are relatively hard to aim correctly due to the slow moving nature of the rockets. The only reason I was going to try and put Gauss Hogs on the map in the first place is because I haven't seen any maps that successfully implemented them... now I know why.

    I think I'll change the rockets to plasma launchers too because of what you said.
     
  15. Marinealver

    Marinealver Forerunner

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    Guass hogs would be a great counter to scorpians tanks, but since you only have a couple of wraiths (and I am guessing open ground) they will slaughter all vehicles. You might want to try revenants instead. They are great against the lighter vehicles and cannot overpower the wraiths. For the wraiths, rockets and a central laser will keep them in check.
     
  16. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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    I'm sorry to bring this thread back but I have one last debate.

    I'm thinking that the snipers should be turned into Focus Rifles to eliminate the fact that the Sniper is now anti vehicle. Please tell me if this is a good idea or not.

    I'm also thinking that each base should get a Plasma Launcher. The central powerweapon I'm thinking could be a Spartan Laser that has a little longer respawn time than the Wraiths.

    The Plasma Launchers would have longer respawn times than the Spartan Laser to give people incentive to still move to the very middle edge of the map to gain control of the Spartan Laser, which is much more powerful than the Plasma Launchers and plays much different from a Rocket Launcher. With only four shots, you'll have to make sure you choose the right target, and it isn't a fire and forget weapon.

    You may wonder why I'm asking you guys if the Plasma Launcher should be added or not. Well I want to give people a chance to fend off attackers from their base with a less effective power weapon. That way there will be a deterent for camping vehicles while still promoting flow of the map to gain control of the Splaser.

    Do you guys think that would work?
     
  17. TCD

    TCD Forerunner

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    For something avalanche like a wraith is a tad bit overkill. Arcing shots could kill or intimidate from over or across that seperator. Gauss is also overkill. For something like that I reccomend:

    2x mongoose
    1x normal warthog
    1x revenant
    1x Falcon

    Per team. Of course if I had pics I could give some better and more balanced setups.
     
  18. Ice Pinata

    Ice Pinata Forerunner
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    Well I have my map around 2/3's complete, and the separater in my map is massive. There is no way that Wraith shots would be able to pass over it. Falcons can't fly over it either. (Well they can, but I'm going to put a soft kill barrier). The bases also have shield doors at the large lower entrances to prevent Wraith spawn killing.

    The Gauss Warthogs as I said earlier are being replaced by Rocket Hogs to help counter the Falcons and distract the Wraiths.

    I'd prefer not to have Revenants as I find them relatively annoying. They don't do much damage anyway. Perhaps another ghost per team?


    Also, would someone mind answering my above debate? I'll reiterate it below:

    I'm thinking that the snipers should be turned into Focus Rifles to eliminate the fact that the Sniper is now anti vehicle. Please tell me if this is a good idea or not.

    I'm also thinking that each base should get a Plasma Launcher. The central powerweapon I'm thinking could be a Spartan Laser that has a little longer respawn time than the Wraiths.

    The Plasma Launchers would have longer respawn times than the Spartan Laser to give people incentive to still move to the very middle edge of the map to gain control of the Spartan Laser, which is much more powerful than the Plasma Launchers and plays much different from a Rocket Launcher. With only four shots, you'll have to make sure you choose the right target, and it isn't a fire and forget weapon.

    You may wonder why I'm asking you guys if the Plasma Launcher should be added or not. Well I want to give people a chance to fend off attackers from their base with a less effective power weapon. That way there will be a deterent for camping vehicles while still promoting flow of the map to gain control of the Splaser.

    Do you guys think that would work?
     
  19. xX Zoidberg20

    xX Zoidberg20 Forerunner

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    I think the sniper rifle should stay even though it's anti-vechile most people don't use it that way and go for infanty kills and only really annoying vechiles get a sniper shot here and there.
     

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